When Matthew Gill was called as prophet of the Restored Branch of Jesus Christ, he claims that Joseph Smith returned to ordain him prophet. Check out our conversation….
Interview
GT 1:52:24 Did you receive an angelic ordination to be prophet?
Matthew 1:52:30 Yes, that took place in 2006.
GT 1:52:33 And that was by Raphael?
Matthew 1:52:35 Yes. That was on the 12th of July 2006.
GT 1:52:45 Did your dad have that too?
Matthew 1:52:48 He had a similar experience.
GT 1:52:50 Okay.
Matthew 1:52:51 But in that experience I had, I met Christ, Joseph Smith, and Jeraneck, although I didn’t realize at the time who he was. Then, obviously…
GT 1:53:14 This was a physical, not just a vision. But they appeared psychically, and laid hands on your head, I assume.
Matthew 1:53:21 Right.
GT 1:53:22 Okay.
Matthew 1:53:23 Not Christ. Christ didn’t lay his hands on my head. He didn’t touch me at all. Joseph did, and Jeraneck.
GT 1:53:30 So, you were ordained by Joseph?
Matthew 1:53:32 Yes, under Joseph’s hand. It’s documented in our Doctrine & Covenants. So, yeah, it’s all documented. It’s all there. It’s all in black and white. In that experience, I was taken with Raphael, and I saw Christ. He didn’t lay hands on me. He just spoke to me. Then, I saw Joseph, who did lay hands on me. Once he’d finished, Jeraneck laid hands on me. Then, of course, we had the call to Stonehenge and the records.
GT 1:54:18 Okay, so this was before you received the Book of Jeraneck.
Matthew 1:54:22 Yeah.
GT 1:54:23 Okay.
Matthew 1:54:25 So, the series of events would be, really, I have an experience when I’m 12 in 1990, where I see Moroni and the gold plates. Then, I have another experience in October 2005, where I see Raphael for the first time. He tells me that something’s going to happen. I need to prepare, that I’m going to be given this gift, what the gift is. Then, there are a series of visitations where I’m shown things and taught things. Then, the 12th of July 2006, I see Christ and Joseph Smith laid his hands on me. Then, after that, we are called to Stonehenge in August of that year, and then the plates come in September of 2006, the same year. Then, all the work’s done and completed by December. So, 2006 wraps up really nicely throughout that period.
GT 1:55:20 Okay.
Matthew 1:55:22 Joseph Smith needed to be there.
GT 1:55:25 Have you had revelations since that you’ve added to your Doctrine & Covenants?
Matthew 1:55:29 We have, yes. I can’t recall off the top of my head how many, but we have, in fact, we go up to–basically, we go up to about 200.
GT 1:55:50 Oh, wow, and you threw out a bunch of [sections.] How many were in the 1835 Doctrine & Covenants, roughly?[1]
Matthew 1:55:58 I don’t know.
GT 1:55:58 One hundred?
Matthew 1:56:01 Yeah.
GT 1:56:02 So, you’ve probably received half of– 100 and 100. Is that a good breakdown, roughly?
Matthew 1:56:07 Yeah, roughly. I mean, over a protracted period of time. I mean, it’s not…
GT 1:56:12 Yeah. What do your revelations deal with?
Matthew 1:56:18 Organization of the Branch, how it should be organized.
GT 1:56:24 So, you’re the prophet, your father is the first counselor?
Matthew 1:56:28 Yeah, the way it goes is prophet, first elder. The second elder would be my father. Third elder would be my son. Then, obviously, as other elders come in, and they’re set apart, they would fulfill those other roles and duties. But we were told when to meet, what to do within the meetings, when to do the sacrament. We knew how to do the sacrament anyway, because we just use the sacrament prayers in the Book of Mormon. There are other things in there. There are revelations to other people like to branch members, children, some of the branch members’ children. Then, there are revelations about the Bible; what Bible we should be using, lots of things. It’s basically, how to govern ourselves, how to behave, what we should be looking to achieve, where to go, who to go to, what to read, what not to read, how to structure meetings, all kinds of stuff. A vision of future events, even, if certain people are faithful, this will happen, which has happened quite a few times with members. Then, of course, there are branch members who have had dreams and visitations themselves and once we’ve talked about them and prayed about them and spoken to the Lord about them, they’re either included into the Doctrine & Covenants, or they’re not, depending on whether that member wants that stuff to be publicly known or not. So, we don’t include everything. We include the things that people are happy for us to stick in there. Because obviously, some people have experiences they don’t want publicly known.
GT 1:58:45 So, do your branch members have revelations, too?
Matthew 1:58:49 They can do, they can.
GT 1:58:52 Those can be included in your Doctrine & Covenants?
Matthew 1:58:56 That’s correct, yes. What the normal procedure would be is if they had a revelation, whatever form that takes, whether it be a dream, or actual visitation, or an open vision, or whatever, we would sit together, and they would discuss it. We would talk about it and [they would] tell me and then we would pray together, the two of us. Then they would pray, and I would pray, and then we’d meet together another day. We would decide, after we’ve done all those things, to include it or not include it into the Doctrine & Covenants. Obviously, there are some things that some people have had that are not in there, because they don’t feel comfortable with it being there, so we don’t put them in.
GT 1:59:44 Interesting. I think I’m finally running out of questions here. Is there anything– oh, actually, I do have one more. Would you say that you’re closer to kind of old style RLDS doctrines and practices than LDS?
Matthew 2:00:12 Probably, yeah, probably. I mean, if you compare the two, probably. I mean, the obvious problem, not for us, it’s a blessing. But the obvious problem, is the added scripture. That’s different than anybody else. If you remove that added scripture, we would probably more closely aligned to our old style RLDS-ism than the LDS Church. They both have their good points and bad points. I know some very wonderful, remarkable people in the LDS Church who I’m still very close with. I know some great people who used to be a part of the RLDS Church, who are very close with us. So, they both have their good points and bad points, just like every organization. No one gets it perfectly right. I don’t think we’re meant to get it perfect right. We’re meant to learn as we go. Because if somebody got it absolutely, perfectly right, there would be no need for confusion, and so many different organizations. We’d all be a part of the same organization. Unfortunately, we’re not.
GT 2:01:32 So, do you have any thoughts on like Denver Snuffer, or John Pratt, or the Brazil plates, or anything like that?
Matthew 2:01:41 Yeah, I mean, I’ve got lots of thoughts about lots of people. I’ve listened to Denver. I’ve read some stuff. I’ve listened to and spoken to members of the Brazil organization that’s going on. But I have big problems with some of the things, especially the Brazil issue with some of the things that go on there. I like John Pratt’s First Vision idea. I think it’s very, very good. I think the research into that First Vision narrative is excellent. I don’t see any reason why it couldn’t have been on that date at that time. But I really have a serious issue with the direction I think he took in this Brazil thing. Look, I know lots of people that have been involved with it, who are no longer involved with it for various reasons. I know of people who have been involved and left. So, the problem is I’m coming from a biased point of view. Anyway, we all are. We’re all coming from a biased perspective, everywhere. Everybody believes that their branch or organization has merit.
Matthew 2:03:18 My argument is, and I’ve never said this, and I have been accused of saying this, but never said that I believe that our branch is the only branch, the only true branch. I don’t prescribe to that one true church theory. I think there’s a lot of good people in a lot of great areas throughout the restoration, who are involved with the LDS, the independent branch movements. There’s lots of great people doing lots of great things. But we’re all still heading or trying to head to something that I think at the moment is an impossibility, because we don’t all agree. We are far too small to be called the only true church on the face of the earth. And to say, as an organization of our size that that is true is just ridiculous. I believe the Lord has given us things that we need to do, has given us a work that we have done and completed and are continuing to push and promote. He’s given us things to think about and to aim at. But I certainly don’t think all the truth is contained here. I believe the LDS Church has some truth. I believe there’s some truth in every organization. But, unfortunately, this one true church theory is all pervasive and until I think we can overcome that–it’s like the authority issue. I have authority, you don’t. I just don’t prescribe to that. That’s a lie. I would be more than happy…
GT 2:05:07 Even though you were ordained by Joseph Smith?
Matthew 2:05:10 Right, yes. Because I don’t believe I’m the only one that’s been ordained by Joseph’s hand. I certainly don’t believe that I’m the only one to have seen Joseph Smith and spoken to him and Christ. I just don’t believe in the line of authority argument. I just think that’s a good excuse for not talking to people. It’s a really good excuse for not trying to find consensus with people. Not everybody subscribes to that method of thought, but the LDS do. I just don’t think it does them any favors personally. But I’d be more than happy for someone else to give me a blessing. I have had other people pray for me and bless me who aren’t members of my branch.
GT 2:06:14 Like Patrick McKay, or people like that?
Matthew 2:06:17 Right, James. I mean, I just think the work is far too large to limit people on authority issues, and one true church theory. It is negative, and it can be defeated. Because you can’t discount—I mean, are we honestly saying to one another, that we don’t believe people can receive revelation outside of an organization? [Are we saying] that we don’t believe that God would speak to someone outside of an organization? And if they’re not a member of that organization, they can’t talk to God, and God can’t talk to them. And he can’t reveal things to them? He can’t give them things and show them things? This is why I say–like the Brazil plates. I’ve taken a view on it. I’ve looked at the evidence. I’ve taken a view on it. People look at my story, and they take views on it. I’m not saying that he hasn’t received something. I’m not saying that people don’t receive things.
Matthew 2:07:29 We just shouldn’t be so easy to write people off. We shouldn’t be so easy to say, “He’s a madman. He’s an idiot, and it hasn’t happened the way he said it happened.” We certainly don’t believe in that scripture. We all have to draw conclusions on what we read and what we hear, and I draw my conclusions on the Brazil issue. I just don’t prescribe to the fact that it’s–I don’t think it’s true, for various reasons. I won’t go into them now, but for various reasons. But there’s other parts of the restoration, I look at, and go, “That is really, really good. That’s great. I’d love to utilize that. I think that’s a really good initiative. I think that’s a really fantastic program.” The problem is when you slap a sticker on it and say this is mine and nobody else’s. I think that’s dangerous, and it’s wrong and pushes us further apart rather than bringing us together. Don’t forget. My feeling is that Zion has got to be established, and there needs to be a healing at some point that we need to come together at some point, or Zion will never be established. That healing can only take place an atmosphere of love, understanding, and people willing to talk and accept the fact that what you say might be true, and what you say might not be true. We need to we need to examine people’s testimonies, people’s stories, and rely on the spirit a little bit more than just relying on what somebody says. That’s all I ever ask people to do. I say, “Look. Don’t just take my word for it. Read what we’ve put out. Look at what we put out. If it rings true for you, then great. If it doesn’t interest you or you just think it’s a load of nonsense. That’s fine as well. That’s alright, we can still be friends. We can still talk.”
Matthew 2:09:33 I have arguments with people who go, “No, I can’t be your friend anymore, because I don’t believe what you believe to be true.” I just don’t think that’s really right. I’ve been on the end of that, personally, and it’s not nice. And there’s no need for it in an organization or a religion as big as ours, as big as the restoration. So, anyway, I’d just like to see a little bit more love, appreciation, understanding of other people. I think what Gospel Tangents does, and I’ve watched it for a long time.
GT 2:10:10 Oh, really?
Matthew 2:10:11 Yeah. I mean, I’ve watched loads and loads of your videos, and I think there’s some great people in these. I think there’s some wonderful people on those videos who’ve got something really positive to say, and they should be listened to, and they should have a platform to say what they need to say. So, I like things like–because Gospel Tangents isn’t just approaching it from one angle and expelling everybody else. I mean, you’ve interviewed people from all over the place, which is great. That’s what I want to say a little bit more of, “Let’s chat. Let’s talk. Let’s find out what’s going on.”
GT 2:10:46 I need to turn this into a commercial, this is great.
Matthew 2:10:51 I really do like your stuff. And the reason I was eager to get on, is because I think we have a story to tell that people don’t know about, and I consider us to be part of the restoration. And what a great platform to spread it on, that you’ve got. I have nothing but praise for what you do, and I think it’s great.
GT 2:11:15 Oh, well, that makes my day. That’s awesome. Thank you. I wanted to ask you about a couple of other people. This might be tough questions. What do you think about some of these polygamous groups that I’ve had on? I know you are anti-polygamy. But what do you think?
Matthew 2:11:39 Well, I’ve watched a few of your polygamy videos. I can sit and watch that and go, “Wow, that’s a really great experience.” I don’t have to agree with it. I certainly don’t agree with it. But I’m thinking, “Well, they’ve got something that needs to be said. They’ve got something that needs to be told from their point of view.” And I don’t agree with it. But I’ll listen to it, and I’ll think about it. Why shouldn’t that be heard? Why shouldn’t that be heard? It’s far too easy to say, “No, you’re not going to have a voice, because you don’t fit here.” I would be more than happy to talk to and chat with a polygamist. I don’t have to agree with their philosophy. I don’t have to agree with the way they’ve approached the restoration. But I don’t think there’s anything wrong with letting them share their views. I certainly wouldn’t want them shut down. I don’t think that’s a good way to deal with it at all.
GT 2:12:41 Okay. Have you met with any other prophets or interacted with like, David Ferriman? I actually interviewed him a few weeks ago. I haven’t published it as of this recording, or Denver Snuffer, or people like that?
Matthew 2:12:56 The trouble with me is I live across the other side of the pond. And if I wanted to interact with those types of people every day or every other week, I’d have to be there. I’ve listened to a lot of the stuff they’ve recorded. I’ve read, especially, Denver Snuffer, more, just because I think it’s an intriguing concept. I don’t agree with it necessarily. But I think…
GT 2:13:23 I view him as kind of a libertarian Mormon leader.
Matthew 2:13:26 Yeah, I mean, the way they do their services, I think is quite refreshing in a way. But, yeah, my problem is I live across to this side of the pond and all the action is going on in America. All the action’s in the Promised Land, and I’m not.
GT 2:13:48 Well, I did have Hans Mattsson on. He’s in Spain. So, he’s relatively close.
Matthew 2:13:56 Yeah, it would be just another drive to a state for you, really. I’ve got to get on the plane for two or three hours. But, yeah, I mean the good thing about the restoration is there’s so many people doing so many good things, and so many different stories. I’m just appreciative that people want to share their stories. I think they should be sharing their stories. They certainly shouldn’t be shut down.
GT 2:14:23 Oh, cool. One last question. What are your thoughts on gay marriage?
Matt 2:14:33 No. We wouldn’t marry a gay couple here. I don’t know what else to say on that issue, really.
GT 2:14:49 You’re not supportive of that.
Matt 2:14:52 No, I’m not supportive of that new way of thinking. I certainly don’t think what the LDS Church is doing with regards to their stance on it is helping or helpful. Look, look…
GT 2:15:11 If a person was gay, could they join your community, especially if they lived in your congregation?
Matthew 2:15:17 They could come out to church and they could they could participate.
GT 2:15:22 They couldn’t be baptized.
Matthew 2:15:26 No, I wouldn’t allow that. I’ve done videos on that, that are up on YouTube. I’ve spoken about it many times, just like transgenderism and stuff. I think it’s a very moral sticky argument, and I don’t think the Lord’s sticky with morals. I think He’s black and white on the issue. If not him, the Father, certainly. So, as a representative of Jesus Christ, which I believe I am, I would have to say no. But I wouldn’t want to stop someone talking to us or even coming to a meeting, but it would have to stop there. I certainly don’t agree with the policy that if you’re not practicing, it’s not an issue, because of what the scriptures say, where you really ought to think of committing adultery in your mind, and you’ve already done it. So, no, I wouldn’t marry anybody, and I certainly would baptize anybody who was gay or transsexual, any of those, any of those LGBT things.
GT 2:16:43 Okay.
Matthew 2:16:44 I know LGBTQ people. I know quite a few, and they’re lovely people, but that’s where it has to end for me, on religious grounds. We part ways.
GT 2:17:05 Are there any other religious issues we should talk about before I let you go?
Matthew 2:17:10 Oh. I’m trying to think of what we haven’t covered. I really like the investigation that’s been done with the Joseph Smith martyrdom recently. I’ve seen a new documentary. I think it’s powerful.
GT 2:17:32 Which documentary?
Matthew 2:17:33 Who Killed Joseph documentary. Have you seen that yet?
GT 2:17:37 Oh, I haven’t seen that. I didn’t know there was a question on that.
Matthew 2:17:42 Yeah, yeah. So, I’ve seen that, and I think it’s a very powerful piece.
GT 2:17:48 What is the documentary? Please don’t tell me [that] they’re saying Brigham Young killed Joseph Smith.
Matthew 2:17:52 (Chuckling) Not personally, no. But, yeah, I mean, they pretty much surmised that John Taylor and Willard Richards shot them.
GT 2:18:02 Oh, brother.
Matthew 2:18:05 So, it’s a great documentary. And I think there’s some there’s some really good points of merit in there, questions that need to be asked. Whether it actually happened that way or not, I don’t know. I wasn’t there. I don’t know anyone that was alive that was there.
GT 2:18:27 I’m looking for my book. I can’t see it, though. Carthage Conspiracy with Dallin Oaks and Marvin Hill.
Matthew 2:18:34 Oh, yeah.
GT 2:18:34 You need to read that. That’s a really good book.
Matthew 2:18:39 I know where the LDS stand on the issue. And I know where lots of people stand on the issue. I just think it plays into the whole polygamy argument, doesn’t it? But that’s an interesting documentary. I’d certainly recommend watching it. It’s a powerful piece, whether you agree with it or not, it’s a powerful piece, still. He’s done some great research and he spoke to a lot of–in fact, everybody was LDS. I think all these people spoke to him. He was an LDS member until he released the documentary.
GT 2:19:14 (Chuckling).
Matthew 2:19:14 As soon as he released it, they sent a cease and desist letter. But, yeah, I mean, I don’t think so. I think we’ve covered all the bases. I mean, what I really want people to understand, lastly, is that we are actively involved in the restoration movement. We believe Joseph Smith was a prophet of God. We believe the Book of Mormon to be sacred scripture. We teach from it. We sell it. We are involved. The only thing that sets us apart everybody else is the added scripture. That is it. So, we’re here. We exist. That’s, that, really.
GT 2:20:00 All right. Do they call you President Gill, Elder Gill?
Matthew 2:20:04 Elder. I don’t like the President, no. That’s too American for me.
GT 2:20:13 Well, Elder Matthew Gill, I really appreciate you and all the time you spent here on Gospel Tangents. I know it’s late there in the UK, and so I appreciate you staying up with me. Thanks again for being on Gospel Tangents.
Matthew: Bye.
[1] The 1835 Doctrine & Covenants contained the seven Lectures on Faith (the doctrine), and 103 revelations (the covenants.) It was printed in Kirtland, Ohio in 1835 and accepted by the Church August 17, 1835. “The Appendix” is now known as section 133. See https://www.thechurchnews.com/history-revisited/2021-07-11/doctrine-and-covenants-editions-changes-book-of-commandments-curtis-218588#:~:text=Doctrine%20and%20Covenants%2C%201835%20edition&text=Contained%20the%20seven%20Lectures%20on,now%20known%20as%20Section%20133.
