Posted on

Feminist Successes & Setbacks (part 1)

Dr. Nancy Ross and Sara Hanks, co-authors of “Where We Must Stand” discuss their experiences blogging at Feminist Mormon Housewives, and putting together a book on the first 10 years of the blog.  They discusses some of the feminist successes & setbacks between 2012-2014.  What were some of the successes in pushing for change within the LDS Church?

Nancy:But at that time the community was all about activism, or so much of the community conversation turned to activism. Really. In the middle of 2012, and this is covered in the book, there’s a little activist action to try and better understand different temples’ policies with regard to women and young women doing baptisms for the dead while menstruating. And so, there are a bunch of phone calls made and they try to get information about what different temples policies are with the idea that, you might show up at a temple and they might have a different policy and that might make people feel excluded or embarrassed.

Sara: Embarrassed. Yeah.

Nancy: And so that happens in the middle of 2012. By the end of 2012, we’ve got the first “Wear pants to church day,” and then that’s followed by, “Let Women Pray,” and the advent of “Let Women Pray was it’s own activist event to try and ask church leaders to let a woman pray in general conference which happened with Jean Stephens, which is super exciting.

Sara: Yeah.

Nancy:And then we’ve got the arrival of Ordain Women in the Spring of 2013. And so leading up to Kate Kelly’s excommunication, like from the middle of 2012 to the middle of 2014, there was just so much momentum in the community for like, Hey, we can change things. With the temple baptisms issue after all of this information gathering, someone was able to kind of make a connection further up the chain in the church and then the church issued a clarification to say no, we need all the temples to allow women young women to participate in baptisms regardless of whether or not they’re menstruating. And that was, that felt huge.

Concerning Kate Kelly’s excommunicationin 2014,

Sara: One part of the feeling was just so much shock, because not only had we felt really hopeful for the possibilities of change, but we also kind of were under the impression as a community at large that with the advent of the Internet and so much attention being paid to the church and so much possibility for exposing problems or injustices that the church wouldn’t take the sort of actions that they had taken when it came to Sonia Johnson in the 70’s or the September Six in the early 90’s or the, the professors at BYU who were censured. We thought, “They wouldn’t because it would be too much of a risk. There would be too much backlash.”

Nancy: And it was also right in the middle of that Mormon moment. And the church had done the “I’m a Mormon” campaign. They had spent so much time, effort, energy and resources trying to make the church look good in the eyes of the public.

Check out our conversation…

Co-authors Sara Hanks, and Dr. Nancy Ross discuss their book "Where We Must Stand:  Ten Years of Feminist Mormon Housewives."
Co-authors Sara Hanks, and Dr. Nancy Ross discuss their book “Where We Must Stand: Ten Years of Feminist Mormon Housewives.”

You might want to check out our other conversations on Women’s studies.

189: Women Have Had Priesthood since 1843! (Quinn)

165:  Elder Oaks Groundbreaking Talk on Women & Priesthood(Stapley)

164:  The Mormon Priestess & Ordain Women (Stapley)

163:  Women Healers in LDS Temples (Stapley)

134: Role of Women in 4 American Religions (Bringhurst)

066: Women Will Not Hold Priesthood! (Vun Cannon)

049: Mormon Polyandry:  More Than One Husband? (Hales)

Posted on

How Rare a Mistake: Did Vincenzo Join Wrong Church?

In the 1980s the LDS Church produced a movie, “How Rare a Possession.”  An Italian man finds a book with no cover, only to learn decades later that it was the Book of Mormon.  It is probably a case of mistaken identity.  Did Vincenzo join wrong church?  We’ll learn more about this story in our final segment with Dr. Daniel Stone, check out our conversation…

GT: Here’s the part that John Hamer told me that nobody knows. Apparently the Bickertonites had a mission in Italy because the Mormon Church did not publish the Book of Mormon in Italian.

Daniel: No, as far as I know, they didn’t.

GT: Yeah, and so it was actually a Bickertonite Book of Mormon that he found that he searching for it, and so he joined the wrong church.

Daniel: Oh, that’s hilarious. You know what? I can’t say for sure. John would know more than me, but yes, as far as I know the Bickertonites were the first church to publish the Book of Mormon in Italian, and if that is the book that that Italian man picked up the join the LDS church, that is the epitome of irony.

GT: Just like William Bickerton, he joined with the Brighamites.

Daniel: That’s right. If that’s really true, then go John Hamer! If he actually looked like check the dates and to make sure because I’m not sure when. I know the LDS church now has their own Book of Mormon in Italian, but yeah, I believe the Bickertonites were the first one and if that was before then. Oh my gosh. Yeah. That is ironic. My goodness.

Here is the short part of the video describing Vincenzo’s experience.

I’d like to thank Daniel for talking with us.  Don’t forget to buy his book!  Wikipedia has some interesting background, including his correspondence with Heber J. Grant!  And if you missed any part of our interview, please check them out!

 

The Bickertonites were the first church to publish the Book of Mormon in Italian. "How Rare a Posession" tells the story of a man who joined the LDS, rather than the Bickertonite Church!
The Bickertonites were the first church to publish the Book of Mormon in Italian. “How Rare a Posession” tells the story of a man who joined the LDS, rather than the Bickertonite Church!

 

205: My Cousin Vinny: Alice Cooper’s Mormon Roots (Stone)

204: Writing History Without Getting in Trouble (Stone)

203: Reuniting the Bickerton Break (Stone)

202: Ousting a Prophet (Stone)

201: False Prophecies Are Possible! (Stone)

200: Civil War Prophecy Leads to Black Ordination (Stone)

199: Biblical Support to Ordain Women (Stone)

198: Bickerton Becomes Prophet (Stone)

197: Sidney’s Church Falls Apart (Stone)

196: Rigdon/Spalding Manuscript Theory (Stone)

Posted on

My Cousin Vinny – Alice Cooper’s Mormon Roots (Part 10)

Alice Cooper was raised in the Bickertonite Church, and his grandfather was the president!  Alice Cooper’s song, “No More Mr. Nice Guy might have a reference to his Bickertonite upbringing!  What else can Daniel tell us about Alice Cooper?  Did Mr. Smithie really punch him in the nose?

Daniel:  We go to a friend, a family friend, between the both of us and we have dinner together and we’re talking and my wife just out of the blue says, “Okay, let me ask you this, are you that Mr. Smithy in the Alice Cooper song that punches him in the nose?”

And then Ike Smith’s wife just burst out laughing and says either her or Bonnie, she says “That’s where it comes from!” See, they didn’t, as far as we know, they didn’t know. Apparently people had been telling them that reference and they didn’t really fully realize where it was coming from. So my wife is, I guess maybe it was the first bold one to flat out say, Hey, are you the guy that punched him in the nose? So go Laura! That was awesome of her. And he said, he goes, “Oh.” He goes, “Oh my goodness. Oh Vinny.” And he basically, or something like that, just very friendly and laughing. And he says, “Just for the record, I did not punch Vinny in the nose.”

So yeah. And I guess we have a friend that’s a part of the Latter-day Saint movement. I had met him one time at a John Whitmer Historical conference. I forget his name. Really Nice Guy. Anyways, he knows Ike Smith as well. And his wife Bonnie. Anyways, he went to an Alice Cooper–I don’t know if it was a meet and greet or a concert or something like that and they took a picture with Alice Cooper and he told him saying, “Hey, I know Ike Smith.”

And Alice said to him, “Tell Ike, Vinny said hi.” So, there’s a history between them and it’s very possible. It’s very possible that sarcastically, you’d have to ask Vincent Furnier himself.

Here’s the video of the song if you’re interested!

We’ll also talk about Bickertonite leadership.  Did they follow Brigham Young’s pattern where the senior apostle becomes leader?  Is an apostle greater than a prophet?

Daniel:  Bickerton is a prophet who are ordains apostles. So it shows, at least through history, and if you would to tie that in scripturally, Bickerton kind of acts in a way. I don’t want to say he was Jesus, but he started a movement and restored the movement. Obviously if you’re a Bickertonite, you have to believe that he had the power to do that and to ordain apostles. So, it’s little interesting mental gymnastics that we play.

GT: I just wonder if that’s because the Cadman narrative is what won out, right?

Daniel: Yeah, exactly.

GT: So he would probably try to push prophets below apostles because he was an apostle and he wanted to be at the top of the church.

Daniel: Oh for sure.

GT: And so it sounded like…

Daniel: And he could even been considered a prophet necessarily, but he still was an apostle and the president first. Yeah.

GT: So, the president of the quorum of the Twelve–so you guys will follow the Brigham Young Movement in that the president of the Quorum of Twelve becomes the president of the church.

Daniel: Exactly, Yep.

Check out our conversation!  Here are our other conversations with Daniel!

 

Alice Cooper's grandfather was President of the Bickertonite Church!
Alice Cooper’s grandfather was President of the Bickertonite Church!

204: Writing History Without Getting in Trouble (Stone)

203: Reuniting the Bickerton Break (Stone)

202: Ousting a Prophet (Stone)

201: False Prophecies Are Possible! (Stone)

200: Civil War Prophecy Leads to Black Ordination (Stone)

199: Biblical Support to Ordain Women (Stone)

198: Bickerton Becomes Prophet (Stone)

197: Sidney’s Church Falls Apart (Stone)

196: Rigdon/Spalding Manuscript Theory (Stone)