Following a stint at St. Olaf’s College in Minnesota, Eugene England sought employment at BYU. He also helped start a Mormon history magazine called Dialogue. Was that magazine a problem for his employment at BYU? Dr. Terryl Givens answers.
Terryl 14:23 So, he applied for all kinds of positions, all kinds of jobs, everywhere. He was desperate. He had a wife. He had several children by this point. He found two positions. One he found was part-time employment with the Church Educational System teaching Institute, back here in Utah. He also secured a position at the Church Historical department. Leonard Arrington felt a great friendship and affinity for him and appreciation of his scholarship and potential. So, he was hired as a researcher part-time in the Church History Department during those kind of Camelot years, in the 1970s. Most of his work there was with Mormon journals and diaries, and specifically on biographical materials for Brigham Young.
GT 15:12 I’m trying to remember when Dialogue started. Was that in the 60s?
Terryl 15:19 That was the late 60s.
GT 15:20 So he was part of that too, which kind of got him into trouble later.
Terryl 15:23 Well, certainly, that’s the recurrent–what do I want to say, kind of…
GT 15:31 Theme of his life?
Terryl 15:32 Theme of his life, his affiliation with Dialogue.`
GT 15:35 Now, didn’t Elder Oaks help start Dialogue, as well?
Terryl 15:38 I don’t know if he helped start it, but he was one of the early– I should know this, but I can’t remember, contributor or one of the editorial board, certainly supportive.
GT 15:47 Right.
Terryl 15:48 There was just widespread enthusiasm for the project. This period of the mid to late 1960s was a kind of period of intellectual ferment in the Church. There was a great deal of discussion about where can we find a forum for the exploration of Latter-day Saint intellectuals and scholars, their ideas, that isn’t constrained by orthodoxy or by what would become Church correlation? So, he was one of the two or three primary founders of Dialogue.
GT 16:23 Elder Oaks?
Terryl 16:24 No, Gene England.
GT 16:25 Oh, Gene England.
Terryl 16:27 Was it Wes Anderson? I’m trying to remember who was the other, I’ve forgotten some of the other names. So, they launched that to great fanfare, the national press gave them attention and write ups.
GT 16:37 Was that a good or a bad thing?
Terryl 16:39 Well, it ended up being a bad thing, because the person that they interviewed, one of the other editors made it sound like this is going to be an avant garde leftist, activist kind of journal and used language in the interview that was published in national media, that immediately created an impression that alarmed some of the brethren. So, almost from day one, they were working to overcome an impression than they were activist agitators, left leaning. Gene labored diligently and really energetically to try to steer a middle path where people were free to express themselves on both sides of the theological and political divide. But that’s proved a recurrent difficulty in Latter-day Saint culture to steer right in the middle, a middle moderate kind of path. You can look at the history of almost every independent journal that’s come up or every independent organization of intellectuals, and they immediately tend to veer far right or far left. So, it was made known to him very directly and explicitly that his affiliation with Dialogue was a problem, an impediment to his hiring at BYU. So, he did not secure a position here, until he had divested himself of his role as an editor, although he continued to contribute over the years. That would have been about 1975, I think, is when he first started teaching here.
GT 18:22 So, he was teaching at the Institute?
Terryl 18:28 He was teaching the Institute part-time.
GT 18:30 Part-time, was that at the University of Utah?
Terryl 18:32 I don’t believe it was. I don’t remember where it was.
GT 18:37 But then he was still in Salt Lake with the Church History Department.
Terryl 18:40 That’s right,
GT 18:41 With Leonard Arrington.
Terryl 18:42 That’s right, and he never got a full time position there. So, it was it was half time in both places, essentially.
GT 18:48 Okay, and so he really wanted to get on at BYU. Tell us, it’s funny, because there are names in there of people that I know, like Bob Rees. I’m trying to remember a few other names on there. I was like, “Oh, these are still living people that I know.”
Terryl 19:03 Yeah, there were a lot of people who were witnesses to many of these unfolding drama. He applied, the first time he was turned down. He was not shy about approaching the brethren and asking them for clarification or to fill in blanks in his understanding of what was transpiring. He spent quite a few afternoons just up there at the Church Administration Building, seeing who was in their office and who he could speak to. It was generally Elder Packer that he interacted with the most in regard to his pursuit of a BYU position. Elder Packer made it pretty clearly known to him early on that it was his affiliation with Dialogue. Gene would later complain to Elder Packer that, “Well, you didn’t tell me that I had to quit.”
Elder Packer would say, “Well, I think the implication was pretty clear.”
Gene would say, “Well, I’m not very good at reading signs. You have to be direct with me.” So, when it was made clear, then he did resign. A year later he was he was hired. He became a full-time employee of BYU. I think it was 1975.
GT 20:13 That was an English department?
Terryl 20:14 Yes, he started in the English Department. That ended up being kind of a perfect storm of wrong circumstances and timing for Gene England to become a professor at BYU. Because in the 1970s, moving into the 80s, that was kind of the high point of revolution in American English departments. I think it was Henry Kissinger who said, at least it’s attributed to him that the fights, the civil wars in American English departments are the most vicious ever seen, because the stakes are so low. That’s an accurate description of my own experience coming of age as an academic in the late 1980s, actually, in my case. There are all kinds of new isms. There’s feminism and there’s post structuralism and deconstruction and structuralism and semiotics and reader response criticism. In other words, the list goes on and on and on. There were very important political stakes associated with all of these diverse groups. At BYU at this moment a decision had been made to try to bring more women onto the faculty. Of course, most women trained in higher education in the 1970s would be feminist in orientation. Of course, many in the Church saw that as inconsistent with good standing in the Church.
GT 20:22 This is going to lead to an Elder Packer talk, I can tell.
Terryl 21:38 That’s right, it does. Of course, we all know that feminism becomes one of the kind of–well, it comes to be singled out as one of the threats to the Church. Right? And even though, institutionally, BYU had made the decision to move forward with hiring more women, and at least tacitly allowing feminist theories of literary criticism, interpretation, to be a part of that English department and Gene England was a very strong champion of those tendencies and directions. But there was great resistance within the department and outside the department, and a couple of high-profile dismissals from BYU of outspoken feminists. Other issues were involved as well, abortion in one prominent case, pro-choice views. So, this all added to Gene England’s tendency to be a kind of provocateur. It meant that his years at BYU almost always involved controversy and tempestuous conflict.
GT 22:50 Yes, can you talk a little bit more about those feminists, because they didn’t make tenure either? What were the issues involved there?
Terryl 22:56 Well, the most prominent case was Cecilia Farr and she gave a speech, I believe it was on State Capitol in Utah, in which she insisted that one could be a pro-choice advocate of abortion rights, and a faithful member of the Church.
GT 23:17 Which Harry Reid was.
Terryl 23:19 Harry Reid was, but he was not a BYU professor. She was given to know that that was not the sentiment of BYU administrators and/or the brethren. It’s always hard to know exactly who is making the judgment calls.
GT 23:39 They like it that way, don’t they?
Terryl 23:42 Well, there’s a certain principle of deniability, maybe, that may be relevant here. So, she was denied tenure. All indications are that that was the principal reason. Her scholarship seemed to be first rate. Her teaching evaluation seemed to be first rate. She had a lot of sympathy from the national media, and from a few powerful voices within the department, including Gene England, but she lost her case. I think that left lasting fissures in the English Department. They persisted for years.
GT 24:21 Are they still there?
Terryl 24:22 I don’t think so. But I don’t have enough affiliation in the English department.
GT 24:26 You’re not in the English department anymore. You don’t deal with them anymore, I guess. But you do teach here occasionally, don’t you?
Terryl 24:33 I have been teaching a course once a year here at BYU through the humanities department, and its course on belief and doubt in life and literature. So, it’s an opportunity to kind of examine the history of unbelief in the modern age, and to engage seriously tough questions about God and faith and our faith in particular. So, I’ve had a really good time teaching that to outstanding students for a couple of years now.
