Skip to content
  • Give me access to SECRET EPISODES
  • Episodes
  • Watch
  • Listen
  • Subscribe
  • Episodes
  • Watch
  • Listen
  • Subscribe
  • Give me access to SECRET EPISODES
PrevPrevious EpisodeHugh B. Brown’s Attempt to End Ban in 1962!
Next ExpisodeHow Kimball Persuaded Apostles to Agree on Lifting the BanNext

Almost Famous: 1969 Black Ordination Nixed by Lee

Table of Contents: Almost Famous: 1969 Black Ordination Nixed by Lee

Click to Support
Gospel Tangents

Despite several attempts to end the ban in the 1960s, Hugh B. Brown made one final attempt in 1969 and almost succeeded.  However, the attempt was nixed by Harold B. Lee. Dr. Matt Harris will give us more information on this, and I think you will hear some really amazing stuff in this next episode.

YouTube player

Matt:  Anyway, the McKay sons and Brown, when Taggart’s thesis comes out, they will use Taggart’s research and say, “Look.  This is just a policy.  This is a policy, it is not a doctrine.  So, if it is just a policy, President McKay, then we can overturn this.”  President McKay agrees to ordain a black man named Monroe Fleming, a loyal member at the Hotel Utah.  This is in September of 1969.

GT:  Wow.

Matt:  Yes, yes.  So, he agrees to ordain Monroe Fleming to the priesthood.  It is interesting, the document that I have that talks about this.  It just says Monroe Fleming.  It doesn’t say all persons of African ancestry.  But you can only imagine that if you allow Monroe Fleming the priesthood, based upon his worthiness of course, then that means that other worthy black members of the church can now hold the priesthood.  That’s how I interpret that.

…

[McKay] agrees to do it, and when Harold B. Lee and Joseph Fielding Smith, mostly Harold B. Lee, because Joseph Fielding Smith is now in his 90s, and his health is getting the best of him.  But when Harold B. Lee finds out about it, he puts an end to it and says, “This is not something that we can do, and if we do it, it has to have buy-in from the Quorum of the Twelve, the full quorum.”

So, President McKay, and I’m going to paraphrase, he says, “I’m too old to fight him.  I’m not going to do it.  We will let President Lee worry about this problem.”  That’s what he says, this “problem.”

We will also talk briefly about some of the BYU protests where other teams were protesting the church’s stance with blacks and the priesthood and temple ban.

Matt:  President Brown wants to lift the ban to get the athletic protests off their back.  In November of ’69 he tells Kenneth Pitzer the Stanford President.  He calls him up.  He said, “This is Hugh Brown of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.  I just want you to know, we are going to lift the ban.”

GT:  He calls the Stanford University president.

Matt:  Yes, he calls the Stanford president and tells him we are going to lift the ban, and even writes him a letter.

GT:  The reason why is because Stanford had just cancelled some sort of a series.

Matt:  Correct.

GT:  Was it football or basketball?  Do you remember?

Matt:  Basketball, I think it was basketball.  It was that fall, they cancelled their contract with BYU basketball.

Lee strongly rejected attempts for black ordination
Lee strongly rejected attempts for black ordination

[paypal-donation]

Check out our other conversations with Matt, like Brown’s previous attempts to end the ban.  Check out our conversation….

Podcast: Play in new window | Download (Duration: 21:37 — 19.9MB) | Embed

Subscribe: Email | RSS | More

Love this? Donate or Subscribe

Do you love the friendly, non-bashing interviews about Mormonism here on Gospel Tangents? 
Please show your support for Gospel Tangents by becoming a donor or subscriber:

Make me a Donor
Make me a Subscriber
No related products found.

More Podcasts with these Guests:

  • GT Live! Top 20 Topics We Missed with Matt Harris
  • *What was Left Out? (Matt Harris 6 of 6)
  • Fired from First Presidency (Matt Harris 5 of 6)
  • Inside the Room for 1978 Revelation (Matt Harris 4 of 6)
  • What Lester Bush Missed (Matt Harris 3 of 6)

Get more information on the people and things discussed in this episode:

  • Guest: Matt Harris
  • Black Mormon History, Priesthood-Temple Restriction, Racial Priesthood/Temple Ban
  • Historical Mentions Bruce R. McConkie, David O. McKay, Gordon B. Hinckley, Harold B. Lee, Hugh B. Brown, Joseph Fielding Smith, Monroe Fleming, Mormon History, Neal A. Maxwell
  • Tags: Blacks & LDS Church, Bruce R. McConkie, BYU, BYU protests, David O. McKay, Gordon B. Hinckley, GT Podcast, Harold B. Lee, Hugh B. Brown, iTunes, Joseph Fielding Smith, Monroe Fleming, N. Eldon Tanner, Neal A. Maxwell, priesthood and temple ban, Priesthood ban, Spencer W. Kimball, Stanford University

Tell me when the next episode drops!

PrevPrevious EpisodeHugh B. Brown’s Attempt to End Ban in 1962!
Next ExpisodeHow Kimball Persuaded Apostles to Agree on Lifting the BanNext
  • Date: May 26, 2018
  • Guest: Matt Harris
  • Black Mormon History, Priesthood-Temple Restriction, Racial Priesthood/Temple Ban
  • Historical Mentions Bruce R. McConkie, David O. McKay, Gordon B. Hinckley, Harold B. Lee, Hugh B. Brown, Joseph Fielding Smith, Monroe Fleming, Mormon History, Neal A. Maxwell
  • Tags: Blacks & LDS Church, Bruce R. McConkie, BYU, BYU protests, David O. McKay, Gordon B. Hinckley, GT Podcast, Harold B. Lee, Hugh B. Brown, iTunes, Joseph Fielding Smith, Monroe Fleming, N. Eldon Tanner, Neal A. Maxwell, priesthood and temple ban, Priesthood ban, Spencer W. Kimball, Stanford University
  • Posted By: RickB

Subscribe

I passed my class! Please help support Gospel Tangents and subscribe to the podcast!

Rick Bennett, Host

Rick Bennett is the friendly host of Gospel Tangents LDS Podcast: The Best Source for Mormon History, Science, and Theology. Book Rick for your fireside or conference.

More Interviews

  • Ben Spackman
  • David Ostler
  • Denver Snuffer
  • Lachlan McKay
  • Lindsay Hansen Park
  • Margaret Toscano
  • Richard Bushman
  • Sally Gordon
  • Terryl Givens
  • Ugo Perego...
View all 100+ Interviewees

Proud to be an Amazon Associate

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.

Subscribe

Go ad-free, get written transcripts, and talk to Rick one-on-one!
Stop Seeing Ads

Rick Bennett, Host of Gospel Tangents

Rick Bennett is the friendly, independent historian at the heart of Gospel Tangents LDS Podcast: The Best Source for Mormon History, Science, and Theology. When he isn't interviewing Mormon scholars, prophets, and others, he is teaching math and statistics at Utah Valley University. He also freelances as a research biostatistician in the fields of Dermatology and Traumatic Brian Injuries, as well as in the network television/cable T.V. industries as a sports statistician. Rick holds a Master of Statistics Degree from the University of Utah.

Contact Rick
Book Rick for your Event
Podcast Episodes
0 +
People Interviewed
0 +
  • Home
  • About
  • Episodes
  • Subscribe
  • Fan Shop
  • Book Rick
  • Contact Us
  • Home
  • About
  • Episodes
  • Subscribe
  • Fan Shop
  • Book Rick
  • Contact Us
Copyright 2025, Gospel Tangents. All Rights Reserved.