We’re talking about where faith & DNA collide. This is a throwback episode from my 2018 interview with Dr Simon Southerton. We’ll discuss how this former LDS bishop got excommunicated over his writings about DNA problems with the Book of Mormon and his book “Losing a Lost Tribe.” Check out our conversation…
Chapters
0:00 Faith & DNA Collision Result in Excommunication
18:41 Cohen Haplotype
36:06 DNA Shouldn’t Vanish
54:45 The Flood & Religious Beliefs
Check out our other conversations on DNA & Book of Mormon: https://gospeltangents.com/lds_theology/dna-book-of-mormon/
Faith & DNA Collision: LDS Bishop to Genetic Skeptic
What happens when a molecular geneticist, serving as a faithful LDS Bishop, encounters scientific data that directly contradicts the keystone of his religion? I’m excited to release the full video of our 2018 interview with Australian researcher Dr. Simon Southerton. A former Senior Research Scientist with the CSIRO (Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization), Dr. Southerton’s journey from devout leader to vocal critic is one of the most compelling narratives in the world of Mormon studies.
Dr. Southerton utilizes his expertise in population genetics to tackle apologetic theories regarding the Book of Mormon, offering a hard-hitting look at DNA, history, and the cost of following his conscience.
Global Flood and “Cognitive Dissonance”
Dr. Southerton’s transition didn’t begin with DNA, but with the Flood. While serving as a bishop, he read an Ensign article classifying those who believe in a “local flood” (rather than a global catastrophe 4,500 years ago) as effectively denying the faith. Knowing that a global flood is scientifically impossible due to geological and genetic evidence, he felt alienated.
This prompted him to research Native American DNA, hoping to find evidence supporting the Book of Mormon. Instead, he found that 99% of Native American markers are derived from Asia, with the remainder being post-Columbus European or African admixture. The realization hit him during a family night:
“We chose Book of Mormon stories… by the end of that song I was pretty deeply upset… I remember thinking at the time I’m never going to sing that song again with my children because it’s wrong.”
“Vanishing DNA” Theory
A major portion of the interview addresses the apologetic argument—promoted by scholars like Ugo Perego—that Lehi’s party was so small their DNA “vanished” or was swamped by existing populations.
Southerton rejects this as inconsistent with the text. He argues that the Book of Mormon describes massive civilizations and rapid population growth, not a small family that immediately disappeared into a dominant culture. He notes that whole-genome sequencing of ancient Mayans consistently shows Asian ancestry, not Middle Eastern.
Cohen Haplotype vs. The X Lineage
Dr. Southerton explains why DNA can track ancient migrations if they actually occurred. He points to the Lemba tribe in Africa, who claimed Jewish ancestry. Genetic testing revealed they carried the “Cohen Haplotype,” a specific Semitic Y-chromosome marker, vindicating their oral history.
Conversely, he takes aim at the theories of Rodney Meldrum, whom he characterizes as a “snake oil salesman”. Meldrum argues the “X Lineage” in North America is evidence of Middle Eastern migration. Southerton clarifies that the X lineage is an ancient marker arriving roughly 15,000 years ago—long before the Nephites—and is distantly related to Middle Eastern markers, splitting off 30,000 years ago.
The Viking Argument
Apologists often argue that since we can’t find Viking DNA in the Americas (despite knowing they were there), we shouldn’t expect to find Nephite DNA. Southerton dismisses this parallel. He argues that Vikings were raiders and traders who didn’t establish massive, centuries-long civilizations comparable to the Nephites and Lamanites described in the scriptures.
Excommunication and Life After Faith
Finally, Dr. Southerton opens up about the “draconian” process of his excommunication. While the Church charged him with “inappropriate relationships” during a separation from his wife, Southerton asserts the true motivation was his book, Losing a Lost Tribe. He describes the disciplinary council as a “15th-century” process where the outcome is decided before the accused enters the room.
Today, Southerton identifies as agnostic, finding peace outside of organized religion. He emphasizes that one does not need the Church to be a “delightful, decent, good human being.”
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