Did you know Tunisia is one of America’s oldest friends, dating back to George Washington? Eryj Ben Sassi tells more about Tunisia’s diplomatic relations with America and her future plans with the Heartland Research Group. Check out our conversation…
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28 is a Powerful Number
GT 00:31 All right, tell us a little bit more about your foundation that you’ve started. Because it’s to build on the history of Tunisia. Tell us the name of it and how did it get started?
Eryj 00:45 Okay, so the name of our association is Didon of Carthage. It’s to honor the first women who founded Carthage three millennia ago, almost three millennia. So, Quenn Dido or Elissa, she came from Tyre, a princess from Tyre.
GT 01:09 That’s Lebanon. Right?
Eryj 01:13 Yes, Tyre, yes. So, even with Lebanon, Tunisian and Lebanese they have the same traditional culture. We say that Lebanon and Tunisia, they are two sisters. In a lot of things, we have the same, not destination, let’s say fate, maybe. In 2014 we, with my best friend, I was talking about Queen Dido Elissa.
GT 01:54 Okay.
Eryj 01:56 And Dido founded Carthage 814 BC. In 2014, if we add the two dates, we will have 2828 years of the foundation of Carthage. Double 28, a perfect number, a double perfect number, 28 is a powerful number. If you made some research on the internet, you can pass days reading about the 28th. At that time, I was a member of an organization, a Tunisian organization called Equality and Parity. That mean to put in the same level of women and men in politics, in organizations, in social life. So, this part is for Dido. Dido, the women who marked the history of Carthage, the symbol is 2828. And we have another date of Hannibal Barca, the man who marked the history of Carthage. It’s the victory of the biggest battle on August 2. In Tunisia, we don’t say August 2nd, we say the 2nd of August. So, we have another 28. So, we have this quality and parity between men and women, both characters who market the history of Carthage. We were, in 2014, at that time. So, 2 multiplied by 14.
GT 03:56 Is 28.
Eryj 03:57 It’s not a coincidence. So, I said to myself, “Oh, my God. I need to make something to commemorate this date. This date will never come again. Never.” I was the only person that got that. I said, this is my mission.
GT 04:17 Okay. So you’re the founder of the organization?
Eryj 04:21 Yes, with the help of, for sure, with my best friend. She is the vice president of the organization. Both of us founded the organization, and we made the first event the 2nd of August 2014. And with limited resources, we’ve made big events. We found people who believed in our project in our association and this is how it started.
GT 04:59 So, are you going to have another one on the 2nd of August 2028?
Eryj 05:03 Oh, I hope I will leave by that time.
GT 05:09 Well, very interesting. And so, I think why we get along so well, is because I found out that not only do you love history, but you’re a mathematician, as well, just like me.
Eryj 05:21 Wow, yeah. I love mathematics. I say to myself, and my mom gave me this love for mathematics. She’s a dress maker.
GT 05:38 She makes dresses?
Eryj 05:39 She makes dresses. So, when she cuts, there’s a lot of calculation to make [dresses.] She worked, and I have another table to make geometry. She was good at geometry, because it’s her work. So, this is how I love mathematics. I find that mathematics is very important, because when you have this type of mathematics thinking, you can understand everything, culture, arts, philosophy, sociology, psychology, medicine, politics, whatever, agriculture. Everything is based off of mathematics and mathematics isn’t that difficult. My message is for young people who are listening to us, mathematics is very, very important.
06:41 I’m going to have to play this clip when I get back to class. [Chuckling] Well, very good.
Eryj 06:49 So, from 2014, every year we make this commemoration.
GT 06:55 Okay. Always on the 2nd of August?
Eryj 06:58 Always, until the pandemic came. I think that the pandemic gave us a very bad energy. We were not anymore related as before. I don’t know if it happened also in America.
GT 07:17 Yeah, I would say so.
Eryj 07:20 But, every year we commemorate the 2nd of August. We were the first people, for sure. Now, a lot of organizations try to do the same.
GT 07:32 Copy you.
Eryj 07:33 But I like this. When people copy you, that means that we succeed on our mission. So, when we make exploration to archeologic sites to [speaks French words.] Anyway you can translate. {French words] the archaeological sites. So, we have our professor called the Mirage Bailey, who was very helpful with us. He has a lot of energy and we have also our member, Hassan, who is purple dye expert. So, we try to do a lot of things for our country, our history.
GT 08:35 Very good. So, we probably should spend a little bit of time on the purple dye, because that was a big deal for the ancient Phoenicians.
Eryj 08:43 Exactly.
GT 08:44 Can you talk more about that?
Eryj 08:45 Okay. I will tell you only the historical parts, not how we do the purple dye. So, the thing is in the sea for sure, the Phoenicians, they work with blue and purple. So, the blue was the color of religious people and the purple for rich people, for honorable, lovely people. Aso Madame Jenzoa, she said to me that they found some people in Israel, they found that the main room, religious room, prayer room, in Solomon’s Temple was painted in blue, the blue from Murex. So, in the sea of Carthage of Tunisia, we have a lot of Murex a lot, a lot, a lot of Murex. Even in Djerba around Djerba. This is how Hebrew came to stay in Djerba, because there’s a lot of Murex to produce the two colors and to sell them to Jerusalem and Lebanon, Tyre, Sidon.
Future with Heartland
Diedre 10:15 That’s cool. All right. So I mean, we’ve had this big celebration last night at the Tunisian ambassador’s house. Do you have any future plans with the Heartland Research Group?
Eryj 10:27 Yeah, sure. We have a lot of projects together. Now, first of all, we are fundraising. The money we make in fundraising is for the construction of the Phoenicia Ship Museum. It’s a very important project. It’s big. It’s huge. It’s beautiful. It’s a joining of the Old World to the New World. It’s highlighting our culture and Native American culture and American culture. I think this is very, very important. I hope all your followers could help us for making this project happen.
GT 11:24 Okay.
Eryj 11:26 The second project we have is anthropological studies. It’s the comparative studies between Native American women and native Tunisian women. We have found a lot of similarities, as I said to you, and Betty said to you. This is also very important. After, we will have exhibitions documentaries, books, and a lot of things coming.
GT 11:53 Yeah. Well, I’m excited. I’m hoping to make it out to Iowa this summer. We’ll see if that happens. So, you guys are really pushing to get this museum going, as well?
Eryj 12:06 Yes, this is very important, not only for our two peoples, but for humanity. It’s for humanity for future generations. We should let them know who we are together.
GT 12:23 Very good. And so, do you have any future plans to keep coming back to America?
Eryj 12:30 Yes, we should come and go and work together.
GT 12:35 Airplane travel is lot easier than boat travel, though, right?
Eryj 12:38 Yes, it’s true. It’s almost 24 hours to come here with [layovers] to stay in another airport to wait for another plane. The difficult part is when I return, because we have six hours of layover. I like America. I like America, because it’s true how we said. We said the American dream. I think that America has this energy. American people have this energy, that when you have an idea, things happened, and this is the beauty of this people and this lands. And I hope you are proud of your country.
GT 13:32 Oh, definitely. Definitely. But I must say you’re making me want to visit Tunisia, especially Djerba.
Eryj 13:38 Yes. So our programming with the Heartland Research to make a travel to Tunisia. So, we’ll prepare all the tools with our government for sure. I want you to know more about our country. Our country is very beautiful, as is yours. So yes, we have a lot of people who want to visit Djerba and Carthage. I hope all of your followers will join us.
GT 14:18 So, is that another reason for your organization is to promote tourism between America and Tunisia?
Eryj 14:26 The reason?
GT 14:2 Yeah, is that another reason?
Eryj 14:28 As I told you, for our humanity, for tourism, for helping people in need to sell their handcrafts. So, it’s for Tunisian people and for American people. This is the importance of exchange: culture and the tourism and to bring the other things. For me, the most important thing is the culture and the history. And, also, for sure, traveling and make people come to your country to know more. This is very important. As we want to know more about America, a very rich country. I want people to come to my country and see the beauty of it, every place. We have places different from the other. The South is very beautiful, places near to the beach [are] amazing. I think it’s paradise.
America’s Longest Diplomatic Relations
GT 15:50 Well, you’ve got me wanting to come, that’s for sure. One last thing I just wanted to cover really quickly, I did not know, and I think most Americans do not know that the first country to recognize the United States, back after the American Revolution, was Tunisia. Can you talk more about that?
Eryj 16:13 So, the first country is Kingdom of Morocco in 1777.
GT 16:21 Okay.
Eryj 16:22 Two years after [that,] Tunisia recognized the independence of the United States of America in 1779, August 28. So now you understand the 28th, my story with the 28th. What I want to say is that we have the longest diplomatic relationship between our two countries without interruption.
GT 16:58 Okay. Because was Morocco interrupted for a time?
Eryj 17:01 I think so, I don’t know. Because our ambassador said this to me, I believe her.
GT 17:09 Yes, well, very cool. I think most Americans had no idea about that, our relationship that goes back.
Eryj 17:19 Even Morocco or Tunisia, we are from North Africa. So, we are brothers sisters. Morocco and Tunisia, both were the first countries to recognize the independence of the United States of America. And this is powerful, really powerful.
GT 17:39 Yeah, and so that’s why we had a couple of men, one of them was dressed up as Thomas Jefferson, at the reception last night. And then there was another one. At first, I thought he was a–well, he told me he was dressed up as a New York militiaman from 1810.
Eryj 17:57 Yes.
GT 17:57 And they were kind of giving information about that. So, that was interesting.
Eryj 18:02 Thank you.
GT 18:04 Well, Eryj.
Eryj 18:07 You spell [pronounce] it good [well,] I like.
GT 18:12 I’ve had a lot of practice, Eryj Ben Sassi, thank you so much for being here on Gospel Tangents. I hope that I can someday get to Tunisia and I can meet you again there.
Eryj 18:24 Yes. I hope to see you there.
GT 18:27 Thanks again for being here on Gospel Tangents.
Eryj 18:29 Thank you, and I hope you enjoy our discussion together.
GT 18:33 Absolutely.
Eryj 18:34 Thank you.
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Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission
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