Tunisia has the oldest synagogue outside Israel. Does it have Book of Mormon ties? Eryj Ben Sassi discusses, Tarshish, Tunisia, & the Book of Mormon character Mulek and how he may have come to Tunisia on his way to North America. Check out our conversation….
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transcript to follow
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Gospel Tangents
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Philip Beale’s Visit to Tunisia
GT 00:27 I’m trying to remember. I’ve seen Yuri Sanada‘s video. And when Philip Beale was leaving, because he visited Tunisia…
Eryj 00:40 Yes, this is how I know him.
GT 00:42 Oh, were you there? That’s what I was going to ask.
Eryj 00:43 I met him. Okay. In 2019, we received the ship and the crew. We prepared the big reception.
GT 00:53 It was a big reception! It didn’t even make the newspaper here in America, I don’t think. But it was a big deal in Tunisia.
Eryj 01:01 In Tunisia, a lot of newspapers talked about this event, media. It was very important for us. We have the support of our government, our Minister of Culture, our Minister of Tourism, also, and a lot of organizations, companies believe in this project and also an association of Marines.
GT 01:35 Okay.
Eryj 01:40 We made the reception there. We took all the crew members to visit Carthage to visit the Coliseum of Elgin and we were invited in the Prince’s house. He is a descendant of the last Bey of Tunisia. So we have a small museum, a private museum in his house.
GT 02:08 Oh, wow.
Eryj 02:09 Yes. And he invited all the group to his house, and we ate Tunisian food, and it was awesome.
GT 02:21 Yeah, I bet.
Eryj 02:22 So after this event, I followed, personally, the ship. It sailed around Morocco, where we organized with the association in Essaouira, which is chaired by Mr. Andre Azoulay, who is the adviser of his Majesty, the King of Morocco. He also has the same values that we want to highlight our history. He was amazed by receiving the Phoenicia ship and the crew. They organized, also, a big reception, in Essaouira. From that time, it was the last time I saw the Phoenician ship with my eyes. When I look like this, I have this image of the Phoenicia ship leaving the port of Essaouira.
GT 03:41 Oh, nice, that is interesting.
Eryj 03:43 But I followed, also, the ship until it arrived to Florida. I tried to help, but it was very difficult to help from Tunisia to find a place for her in Florida. Hopefully, there’s somebody who helped the Phoenicia to have a place.
GT 04:07 Okay. And so, this was a big news. I know Philip had a satellite phone, so that he could communicate. But really, there wasn’t much communication going on. I guess they must have had a generator for batteries and things, because I know, Yuri had a camera, so they had to keep the camera going.
Eryj 04:34 Exactly.
GT 04:35 And so they had a few modern amenities that the ancient Phoenicians probably didn’t have. But do you remember how long it took from–so the last stop was in Morocco?
Eryj 04:48 Yes.
GT 04:48 Until they, I guess they landed somewhere before Florida?
Eryj 04:53 Yes, so from Morocco they went to Tenerife.
GT 04:58 Okay.
Eryj 04:59 And from Tenerife, I think they left Morocco, I think, the first of November, one week after they arrived to Tenerife, if I have a good memory.
GT 05:18 And that was their last stop before a long, long journey.
Eryj 05:22 But Captain Philip Beale and Yuri, they will give you more information about this. So, I think they stayed in Tenerife, about 10 days, maybe two weeks. After the journey [of] crossing the Atlantic started. So, they stayed there, [in the Atlantic Ocean,] I think, five weeks, six weeks before arriving to Caribbean.
GT 05:25 Very good. I can’t imagine going for six weeks and not seeing land.
Eryj 06:02 I was, every day, looking on the internet because we have the link.
GT 06:07 Oh, you had a tracker?
Eryj 06:08 I had a tracker. So, every day I say, “Oh, they are moving forward.” Some people didn’t believe they could reach the Atlantic. Some said to me, “They will die in Atlantic.”
GT 06:27 I was eavesdropping on a conversation between Boyd Tuttle and Rod Meldrum. And Boyd talks about almost going overboard one time with a big wave. I need to get Boyd on.
Eryj 06:41 Yes. Boyd and the crew also, Yuri, because he lived the whole experience.
GT 06:51 He did it twice.
Eryj 06:52 Exactly the first experience, and the second one. Vera Sanada also [travelled with Yuri both times.] You have Doug and Carson, his son; Boyd.
GT 07:07 Yeah, I just met them yesterday.
Eryj 07:09 For me, I wasn’t a crew member, but that’s okay.
GT 07:13 Since you mentioned his name, his last name is Petty, I think, Carson Petty, and his dad, I can’t remember his dad’s name. But they live close to me. And I just met them yesterday.
Eryj 07:24 They are here, so you can meet them.
GT 07:26 So, I’ll have to get them on for their experiences, too.
Mulek of Tunisia
GT 07:31 I want to jump back to the name Mulek, which is a name that the people in my church know, but it has a special meaning for you. And can you tell us what does the name Mulek mean?
Eryj 07:46 Okay. When I talked for the first time about Mulek, I didn’t know about him before. Last time when I came, the first time to the US and I was talking with John. He explained to me about Mulek.
GT 08:01 John Lefgren.
Eryj 08:02 John Lefgren, President of the Heartland Research. I thanked him, really, for what he did with Betty LaFontaine and with Mike LaFontaine and with all members of the Heartland Research Group. Because if they didn’t believe in the Phoenicia ship, we would be not here today discussing this.
GT 08:29 That’s for sure.
Eryj 08:30 He explained to me about Mormons and Mulek and Nephi and Lehi and I say to him, “Oh, you know that Mulek, it means something in Tunisia. We have a lot of boys who whose name are Melek.”
GT 08:52 Okay.
Eryj 08:52 Melek is the king. Or, I just get it now, or the angel.
GT 09:04 Oh, really?
Eryj 09:04 Yes. Okay. It has the same meaning, but it depends on the way you spell it in Arabic. And when he talked to me about Mulek, it was like, a differentiation of pronunciation. So, he said to me that he left Jerusalem in 600 BC.
GT 09:33 Right.
Eryj 09:34 I told him, “He cannot reach America without passing through Djerba and Kerkennah. It’s really impossible. They should make the poles there. But what I think, it’s personal thinking, opinion, of what has happened. When of the temple was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar, as I told you, this is true that a lot of Levi and Cohen came to stay in Tunisia in Djerba. So, it was the same date that Mulek left Jerusalem. Mulek, he is the son of the king.
GT 10:33 Zedekiah.
Eryj 10:34 Yeah. So, maybe no one, Nebuchadnezzar didn’t know about the existence of Mulek. Maybe he was still a baby. Maybe his mother was pregnant with him. Because I joined this idea to the story of El Ghriba of Djerba, the synagogue of Djerba. The synagogue of Djerba has the name of El Ghriba, forerunner or the stranger. So they said, the people said that El Ghriba, the synagogue, the name of the synagogue, it’s about a woman who came from Jerusalem, who brought with her, part of Jerusalem doors, or part of the Bible, of stone from the temple, something like that. This is a version. The second version is that the synagogue was burnt, and she lived. She was inside and she lived. So, if we join Mulek and the synagogue, it makes sense for me.
GT 11:57 Yeah.
Eryj 11:58 So this is why we want to do more research about that Mulek.
GT 12:08 That’s really interesting, because I know a lot of the people in the Heartland Group think that the Mulekites came from Jerusalem [and] easily could have stopped in Tunisia on their way to the Americas.
Eryj 12:21 They came there to Djerba, because they know if the mother came with her baby, they know there’s people that will protect them there.
GT 12:35 Okay.
Eryj 12:38 So, maybe he was growing up there before going to America. Because, you know that Cohen and Levi, they are the people who know about the Bible, the protector of the Bible and the temple. Maybe they protected him. They give him knowledge. After that, I don’t know what’s happened. I have some ideas, but I will not tell you now.
GT 13:14 Oh, come on. (Both chuckling.)
Eryj 13:17 Because I don’t know this part of the history. I guess to myself, maybe Nebuchadnezzar knows or note about the existence of Mulek, and they want to kill him in Djerba and this is how, if he left Djerba and Tunisia to reach a new place and why he wants to go to America. He doesn’t know about America, because only Carthaginians know about the existence of land called, maybe at that time called America. Who knows? Do you understand?
GT 13:53 So, you think that when Mulek came from Jerusalem to Djerba, the Phoenicians had already been going to America.
Eryj 14:02 Exactly, Phoenicians, Carthaginians, all of them we call the Phoenicians. So, yes, I believe in this. This is how, maybe, this is my story. When you succeed, when you make something good, people talk. So, when that people reached America, now what we call America, so this population knew that some navigators went somewhere. Nobody lives there, maybe, or few population live in America. So, maybe he has this information. This is how he went, to my thinking. So, he went from Djerba to Carthage and from Carthage, he chose a sailor, and a ship and moved to America.
GT 14:03 Okay.
Eryj 14:08 This is how I imagine. I believe in it. And I want to do more research about this with people who know for sure, expert of the Book of Mormon and expert of the Bible, expert of this project. We need more experts to think, that we should be open for a lot of opinion.
Ties to Heartland Research Group
GT 15:39 Okay, okay. And so ,I’m just curious. It sounds like you’ve got a lot of synergy, I guess, with the Heartland Research Group, because they believe that Mulek came from Jerusalem and eventually to America. Have you always believed this? Is this something that Tunisians have believed for a long time?
Eryj 16:05 Yes, so I had a conversation with a big historian in Tunisia called Madame Jansa WaLee. She’s a very famous historian. She said to me, “We know that Carthaginians went to America. It’s sure. But we don’t have the proof, because Carthage was destroyed.”
GT 16:35 So, you think that proof may have been in Carthage and the Romans took it with them?
Eryj 16:40 Maybe.
GT 16:42 Or destroyed.
Eryj 16:45 But the thing is that when I met Betty LaFontaine and the group of the Heartland Research, this is very impressive for me. When I met her, I found a lot of similarities between our people and her people, in traditions, our culture, especially between women. Women always protect the tradition and culture. We have a very ancient tradition, very ancient. So ah, these people have the same tradition as us.
GT 17:26 Yeah, I was talking to Betty and she was telling me the same thing last night.
Eryj 17:30 Exactly. It’s not a coincidence. It cannot be a coincidence. So, for me, all this story makes sense.
GT 17:40 Okay. So, your organization’s working with the Heartland Research Group…
Eryj 17:45 To prove this.
GT 17:47 Yeah. And to strengthen the ties there. Is it true the Tunisian government wanted Philip Beale’s ship but John beat them to it.
Eryj 18:02 Is it true?
GT 18:04 Yeah. Did the Tunisian government wanted to buy Philip Beale’s ship?
Eryj 18:09 Yes. The municipality of Carthage said to him, “We would like to buy the ship after you finish your journey, your expedition to make a museum.” But I think the Heartland Research were quick.
GT 18:37 Because I remember, Phillip landed in Florida. I want to say it was February of 2020. That’s right when the pandemic hit America really hard. So, they were like, you’ve got to get out of here. So, he went back to England, and just left the ship there in Fort Lauderdale, I believe. And then Mike LaFontaine and Betty and John said, “Hey, we want to buy it, since it’s here.”
Eryj 19:09 It is genius from them. For me, I think that the mission of Phoenicia has not only proven that the Phoenicians could reach America before Columbus, it’s bigger than this. I think time came to prove that our two people are the same people.
GT 19:40 Okay. And I know last night, Betty, I’m trying to remember what it was called. But there was this, I think she called it a lulu.
Eryj 19:50 Yes, Lulu. We say JuJu in French. In Tunisia, we say Zarita.
[Clip shown from Tunisian Ambassador’s house where Betty and Eryj perform a lulu/Zarita.]
Betty 19:59 With the native people, we celebrate times with something we call a lulu. I will do a lulu for you.
Ambassador Tajouri Bessassi: We do a lulu also.
[Betty makes high-pitched sound. The Ambassador and Eryj repeat a similar high-pitched sound. Audience applauds.]
Betty 20:30 When the ship landed in Fort Lauderdale, I heard that familiar sound. And I was like, what is that I hear? That’s the lulu. I will do the same thing. So when we had a reception, one of the ship crew, she was from Lebannon. She did the call and I did it back to her and she looked at me. Wow, where did that come from? Native Americans celebrate. That’s what we do. We do the lulu for celebration for warriors when they come back from hunting with hopefully much. But this is the lulu.
Ambassador Tajouri Bessassi: This is the same thing for us to celebrate, and we show our joy. Yes, yeah, yes.
Betty 21:20 There we go. We’re we’re coming together with two cultures. Amazing. Beautiful.
GT 21:27 How many languages do you speak?
Eryj 21:29 So, I speak Tunisian. For me, it’s a language. But I think it’s more than language because it’s a mixture of a lot of languages. We have Tunisian language, we call it before, the lingua franca.
GT 21:51 Okay.
Eryj 21:52 It’s a mixture of Arab language of Malti from Malta, Italian, Latin, French, Spanish, maybe African.
GT 22:06 You really are a melting pot.
Eryj 22:08 Yeah, exactly. So, Tunisian language, Arabic language, French, and the little bit English.
GT 22:18 Well, I would hate to do an interview in any other language than English.
Eryj 22:25 But I hope to speak better.
GT 22:30 Oh, you do great.
Eryj 22:32 Thank you.
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Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission
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