Eryj Ben Sassi is the Founder & President of Association Didon of Carthage in Tunisia. She believes that ancient Phoenicians came from North Africa to North America in 600 BC. In February she came to Washington, DC for a diplomatic reception to strengthen ties with the Heartland Research Group. We’ll discuss more about her group and why she believes that. Check out our conversation….
Don’t miss our other segments with Eryj! https://gospeltangents.com/people-eryj-ben-sassi
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GT 00:27 Welcome to Gospel Tangents. I’m excited to have an international visitor here. Could you go ahead and tell us who you are, and where are we?
Eryj 00:36 Thank you, Rick, for having me today with your channel. I am Eryj Ben Sassi. I’m coming from Carthage, from Tunisia in North Africa.
GT 00:48 That’s very exciting. So what brought you here? We’re in the Washington DC area. What brought you here?
Eryj 00:55 I’m very excited to be here in Washington, DC. I am the president and founder of the Association Didon of Carthage. I represent my association and my country, the culture part of my country. We have a partnership with an American association called the Heartland Research [Group.] Together we will try to bring the Old World to the New World.
GT 01:29 We’re excited about this. Last night, we met at the [Tunisian] ambassador’s home and had a fantastic meeting and get together. You and the Heartland Research Group, you’ve been following Philip Beale. For those who may not remember who is Philip Beale and why do both you and the Heartland Research Group like him so much?
Eryj 01:46 Philip Beale is a genius man, an exceptional man. He built a Phoenician replica ship in Syria years ago. He started his journey in 2008. His first journey started from 2008 to 2010, so two years to make the circumnavigation around Africa. At that time, I didn’t know him.
GT 02:30 I didn’t either.
Eryj 02:31 Personally, I don’t know him. Okay. But he started a second expedition, second adventure in 2019. He came from England to Carthage. And this expedition [was] called, Phoenicians before Columbus. The objective of this expedition is to prove that Phoenicians and Carthaginians were the first to discover the American continent 600 BC or maybe more. I suppose that is before 600 BC.
GT 03:15 Yeah, so you think that ancient Phoenicians could have traveled all the way from say, Israel to Carthage, and then on to America?
Eryj 03:26 Yes, I believe. So we have in our history two famous admirals, Carthaginian admirals. They are the most famous navigators of that time, of ancient time. So, Admiral Himincon went from Carthage to Cornwall in England.
GT 03:56 Okay.
Eryj 03:57 And Admiral Hannon went from Carthage to Cameroon…
GT 04:04 Oh, wow.
Eryj 04:05 …with a fleet of 60 ships. So, if these two admirals were the experts of navigation and can navigate to Cornwall and to Cameroon, they can easily go to America. And, especially, as Captain Phillip says, because he is an expert. I’m not an expert of navigation. He said that navigating through the Atlantic Ocean is very easy when we compare it to the Mediterranean.
GT 04:56 Okay. Oh, it’s easier than…
Eryj 04:57 It’s like a vacation for them.
GT 04:59 Oh, really?
Eryj 05:00 It’s very easy, because the Mediterranean is very difficult, as he said. We have, also, the Gulf Stream in the Atlantic Ocean. So, I think that ancient people could easily reach America at that time. They were curious to know new places, to make their trading.
GT 05:35 Do you think this was just a one-time voyage or were they going back and forth?
Eryj 05:40 I think that it was a lot more, not one time. If they discovered it, I think they made a lot of travels between this area and America.
GT 05:55 Okay. So basically, as I understand it, and correct me if I’m wrong. So, he traveled from Israel, Syria through the Mediterranean.
Eryj 06:05 From the Levant, we have Lebanon, north of Syria, Israel, so the south of the Mediterranean to Carthage, from Tunisia, North Africa, and from Carthage, they can go through Gibraltar. And after they went to Essaouira in Mogadore, it’s like the last step before crossing the Atlantic. After there, they can go to Entecavir in Africa.
GT 06:46 And so he followed the same route that Christopher Columbus did, but it was supposedly, 2000 years before Columbus, right?
Eryj 06:56 Yes, more than 2000 years. More than 2000 years.
Ancient Hebrews in Tunisia
GT 07:01 In my church, we talk about a person called Mulek. John [Lefgren] has told me that has a special meaning for you. We probably should mention a little bit more about Tunisia. So, last night at the ambassador’s reception, I learned that Tunisia is 98% Muslim, and 2% Jewish, Christian and everybody else. Now you’re in that 2%.
Eryj 07:26 I would explain to you about Tunisia. Tunisia is very rich country. People from more than three millennia, we received a lot of people from everywhere. This part of land in North Africa received a lot of people. So, in Tunisia, we have a mixture of people from the Levant from Europe, from Africa, from Arabs. So, the history of Tunisia is very rich. It started 7000 years ago with the Capsian civilization. We said in French, la Civilization Capsian, and we have a region in Tunisia called Gafsa. In Gafsa, we can find cots, in the mountain, Gruts. I don’t know the word in English.
GT 08:29 I’m not sure.
Eryj 08:30 Like a room in the mountain, like a natural room.
GT 08:32 A cave, maybe.
Eryj 08:33 A cave, that’s it. So a cave with an inscription, very old inscription, and, not painting. It’s like an inscription, anyway. They show the civilization 7000 years ago, officially announced by UNESCO. But some historians said that it could be 40,000 years ago.
GT 09:02 Oh, wow.
Eryj 09:03 But officially, we said 7000 years ago, the first civilization in the world, in the history of the world.
GT 09:14 Okay.
Eryj 09:15 So after some millennia–we have, at that time, let’s say, around 3000 years ago, 3000-2000 and some centuries, we have people called Getiles, Numidian and Libic. That’s why now we have Libya. People from the Canaanites and also King Solomon, he came to Tunisia to make some trading. You can imagine the date of the period of Solomon’s kingdom. He sent a lot of ships to Tarshish to make trading. Where is Tarshish?
GT 10:19 I don’t know. I’m trying to think of is that the story of Jonah in the whale? Right?
Eryj 10:26 Tarshish, we have three exhibits of the Bible who confirm it that Tarshish is Tunisia.
GT 10:33 Oh really?
Eryj 10:34 Yes.
GT 10:34 Oh, wow. So Jonah was trying to get to Tunisia, when he was trying to escape Israel, basically, right?
Eryj 10:42 Who?
GT 10:43 Jonah, the prophet Jonah in the Bible?
Eryj 10:47 I don’t know this this part. I don’t know. I cannot tell you more. From the time of Solomon, we have Jews, let’s say, Hebrews in Tunisia. They came. They stayed in Tunisia to make a culture of the purple and the blue.
GT 11:19 That’s why I’m wearing my purple today.
Eryj 11:23 I like it! After the destruction of the temple, a lot of Cohen and Levi and Hebrew came to stay in this part of land, because it’s very peaceful. These people were mixed with the indigenous people of what we call now Tunisia and North Africa. This is the first part of the first religion in Tunisia. From that time, we have the Jewish religion, Judaism in Tunisia. After that we have Queen Dido. But before Queen Dido, we have the Phoenician in north of Tunisia, who came to found Utica. In Arabic, Utica is the oldest city. It was founded in 1100 BC. A few centuries after we received Queen Dido who came with sailors, her lawyers, people and her servants. She stayed in Carthage and Carthage was called–we don’t know the name of Carthage, the real name of Carthage. We have a lot of stories, but Carthage is Cat Hadash that means, the new city. We have this mixture of two populations, the Canaanites and the people from the Tunisian indigenous, or let’s say North African indigenous. We have the part of the population who was converted to Judaism, naturally, because they believed in one god. It’s the first religion. So, after this, centuries after we have the Christianity religion and Tunisia gave four popes to Rome.
GT 13:46 Oh, I didn’t know that.
Eryj 13:47 Yes. The famous one, his name is Julius. Julius, he codified the Bible.
GT 13:59 Okay.
Eryj 14:01 So, the history of Tunisia is very rich. The Christian history of Tunisia was very powerful. From that time, we have two people now. We have Jewish and Christian.
GT 14:19 Well, and John was telling me the oldest synagogue in the world is in Tunisia.
Eryj 14:25 Exactly.
GT 14:25 I had no idea. How far back does that go?
Eryj 14:28 So, it’s the oldest synagogue, let’s say, in North Africa, because the oldest one is in Israel, Jerusalem.
GT 14:37 So the oldest one outside Israel is in Tunisia.
Eryj 14:40 Yes. So, why? Because after the destruction of the temple, the Kohanim, they go and leave, the Cohen and Levi. They came to Tunisia. They escaped Israel to a peaceful land. They know before. They heard about it before, because there were Jews, Hebrews who stayed there. And they bring with them a part of the doors of Solomon’s temple.
GT 15:14 Okay. So, you can still see those at the synagogue?
Eryj 15:17 No, no, no. It’s very secret. It’s very powerful. It’s sacred. So, no one can see it, even, maybe, the big rabbis and the people who are still Kohanim/Cohen. But every year there’s a big celebration in this synagogue and we have thousands of Tunisian Jews around the world who came to visit the synagogue. It’s the most beautiful celebration in Djerba and we wait for this celebration because for us, it’s the beginning of the tourism period for all [of] Tunisia.
GT 16:10 And so Djerba is an island right off of Tunisia. It’s the largest island.
Eryj 16:15 We have two islands of Tunisia, we have Carolina, two big islands, we have Djerba and Kerkennah. Kerkennah is in the middle of Tunisia, beginning of the South. Djerba is more in the South. I can tell you which is the biggest. I don’t have this information now.
GT 16:48 But Djerba is where this synagogue is that you were talking about.
Eryj 16:51 Exactly. Djerba is known. It is an island where living there is awesome, because you have a mixture of culture. You can find Jews, Christians, Muslims, living in peace, loving each other. They don’t care about the religion of the others. So, they are caring with themselves, sharing with them, with all the population there. We are very proud of what we have in Tunisia.
GT 17:28 Yeah, that’s awesome. So what I understand is…
Eryj 17:32 So, just to answer your question about our different religions, centuries ago, when we have Islam, Arabs came to Tunisia, in like all countries now. They converted the population to Islam. That’s why now we have a lot of Muslim population, and Jews and some Christians, because all of them, most of them were converted. But basically, they had no other religion before. We don’t know if you were Christian, or if you were Jewish, or if you don’t have a religion before. So, every family should make some research to know what they are before. Some people don’t want [to do that.] It’s a very personal and very private thing for them.
Goals of Association of Carthage
GT 18:35 Very good. In America, we’ve probably heard of Tunisia. We don’t know much about it. But from what I understand, there’s a lot of tourism from Europe. And are you trying, with your organization, to open up more tourism to Americans and have more Americans come there?
Eryj 18:58 Yes. Basically, the main objective of our organization is to highlight our history and our culture. Because we passed by a very bad period with the colonization and some of our history is hidden. The new population of young people don’t know very [much.] They don’t know about our background, our history and what we are, really. So, after the revolution in Tunisia in 2011, we, as young people, we need to know more about what we have in Tunisia. We are thirsty for culture and history. That’s how I was. Personally, when I was young, I was always fascinated about history, archaeology, as I live in Tunisia, in Carthage, I was born in Carthage. My family lived in Carthage a minimum 80 centuries ago.
GT 20:09 Eighty centuries?
Eryj 20:10 Eighty centuries, minimum.
GT 20:11 Wow!
Eryj 20:14 So, I’m fascinated as members of our group, me and my best friend created this association to highlight our rich part of Tunisia. When people know about your history, for sure, they want to come and to visit.
GT 20:44 Yeah, you might be getting some more visitors out of this interview.
Eryj 20:47 Yes, you are welcome! I hope to see you there. We have a lot of things, really, Tunisia is very rich. We have a lot of periods. You can stay your whole life in Tunisia, and it’s very small country. But if you are fascinated by the culture, every time, you will find something new to know about.
Rome Sacked Carthage
GT 21:14 Well, yeah, I mean, it seems like I also heard, because there was the big war between Carthage and the Romans. The Romans sacked Carthage. For anybody who knows anything about the history, that’s all we know.
Eryj 21:33 Exactly. This is why we want to highlight our history, because Romans took all of our history. For sure, I’m not talking about actual Rome. We should know that a lot of Carthaginians at that time, moved to Rome, and a lot of what we call Romans were Carthaginians.
GT 22:01 Right.
Eryj 22:01 So, actually, we are a mix of people. When you come to Tunisia, for example, we have a city in Tunisia called Carbonne. When you go there, you see– all the faces look like Italian faces. They are different from the other population. We are really mixed together, even our manner, how we talk, our food is the same.
GT 22:34 It was awesome food last night, by the way.
Eryj 22:38 We also like Italian food, but also Tunisian food is very good. I like food culture.
GT 22:46 Yeah. Well, if I remember, right, you’ve got the third largest coliseum in the world in Tunisia.
Eryj 22:55 It’s the second.
GT 22:56 Second, okay.
Eryj 22:57 It’s the second. I believe that it was the first.
GT 23:02 Before the Colosseum in Italy?
Eryj 23:03 Yes.
GT 23:04 Oh, really?
Eryj 23:04 Yes, I believe that it is.
GT 23:07 So, you can see Roman ruins there as well.
Eryj 23:10 Historians, they will laugh about me, because, you know, there’s some proof. But I think there’s a lot of information which were disinformated, you know?
GT 23:25 Disinformation.
Eryj 23:26 Disinformation about that.
{End of Part 1}
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