What’s is like to visit a MegaChurch, a Heavy Metal Church, and a Mormon Church? David Boice is the author & host of 52 Churches in 52 Weeks and gives us his impressions. Check out our conversation…
Protestant Visits Metal, Mega, & Mormon Churches
Interview
GT 00:23 So, anyway, [do you have] more takeaways from that first year?
David 00:27 Yeah, oh boy, just how much is out there. And (for example) I would go to one church in Ohio, it was a heavy metal rock music church.
GT 00:37 Nice!
David 00:39 You’d have to prepare what to wear. So, I’m wearing, black shirt, black hat, torn jeans.
GT 00:46 Black Sabbath, {Rick chuckling}
David 00:48 Well, they would incorporate Metallica and Judas Priest into the sermon. {Rick laughing} But it was very specific, because you saw just how many different people are out there. Because with that particular church, they did not fit within maybe like a Roman Catholic church, or some of the more dressy type of churches. I started to see the different type of outreaches out there, because you just never know what’s out there and specifically when it comes to the different towns or where they live, because maybe one place like Salt Lake City is going to be completely different than another city south of Chicago. The churches need to cater towards who is already there sometimes. So, I found that very interesting.
GT 01:40 So you wore an AC/DC shirt then?
David 01:43 It was Motley Crue. I wore Motley Crue for that one.
GT 01:44 Motley Crue. {Rick laughing}
GT 01:48 So how was the music?
David 01:50 It was this blue grass, rockabilly type of music for the one that I went to there.
GT 01:59 Okay.
David 02:00 But out front, they had this customized hearse.
GT 02:05 Oh.
David 02:06 And that was just their hook to get people to come to church who don’t necessarily feel like going to a traditional type of church. {Rick laughing} I followed them on Instagram. They would do baptisms in this black coffin.
GT 02:23 Really?
David 02:23 It was just very different, very different. With the Gospel Tangents audience, I’m sure you’re probably never going to do something like that for baptism, but just to see what else is out there with other type of church traditions, it just had me scratching my head. I mean how do some of these churches originate with these different ideas?
GT 02:50 And how did they originate with this Hard Rock Church?
David 02:54 Oh boy, it was interesting. I would see that, but then I started seeing other types of churches. like the most recent one, I learned there were cowboy churches. You go to church, and then there may be a rodeo right afterwards, or the night before {Rick chuckling}. The rodeo arena is right next to the church. We didn’t see that in Texas. I don’t know when you were driving around Fredericksburg, if you saw anything like that?
GT 02:54 I didn’t see any cowboy churches. Is there one there?
David 02:55 There was one when I was driving back.
GT 03:30 Oh.
David 03:31 I did see one, but they had it gated and I couldn’t take much of a look. {both laughing}
GT 03:38 Oh, wow. So the Hard Rock Church, that was in your first year?
David 03:42 Yep.
GT 03:44 Any other takeaways there, in that first year?
David 03:48 I think what I learned, especially, was the lack of follow up that churches had.
GT 03:54 Okay.
David 03:55 For instance, a lot of churches would promote on websites, Facebook, to get people in. Then they’d obviously do the church sermon, at most of the churches I would go to, with the music and everything like that. But what a lot of churches lacked was just following up. Because the churches that sometimes had the best impressions are those who would send a handwritten letter to me. Because I was trying to do a side project of what churches actually will respond to people who visit for the first time?
GT 04:26 Okay.
David 04:27 There are a few where they would take two months, maybe three, before I would receive any kind of mail. And by that time, it’s super late. Are you aware of Joel Osteen?
GT 04:41 I am.
David 04:42 So, I did go to Joel Osteen’s Lakewood Church that year.
GT 04:45 Is that in California?
David 04:46 Houston.
GT 04:47 Houston, Texas.
David 04:50 That one was very different because I got in the mail, I want to say, maybe a month or two after my visit, where they were just pushing, “Here, give us your money.”
GT 05:03 Oh really?
David 05:04 Check here if you want to send $20. Check here if you want to send us $50. check here if you want to send more…
GT 05:10 We don’t care if you come to the church, just give us money!
David 05:12 Right, pretty much that is what it felt like. The different types of follow up, and I think the thing that I found most interesting was the churches that followed up within a few days, some of which may have had someone do a handwritten letter to you, those were typically some of the most like, I would come back here. Because they had that personal touch. And a lot of churches just did not have a personal touch when you’d visit them, even when, “Here’s my contact information. I’m interested in your church.” Often times, when I didn’t get anything back, it just made me wonder, is this a reason that the church, Christianity may be on the decline is we’re losing that personal touch with people walking through the doors?
GT 05:53 Okay. Well, very good. All right. You did your first 52 Churches in 52 Weeks. You blogged about it. And then you were like, I need a break of seven years?
David 06:13 Yep, well it wasn’t planned that way. With the first 52 Churches in 52 Weeks, I just figured it was very time consuming. It cost a lot of money. I converted the blog into a book. And doing that was very stressful, to try and get that all together with editing and everything in the marketing. I did not like the marketing aspect of it. And I just kind of was like, Alright. I’m kind of done with this. It was a fun adventure at that time. But then 2020 rolled in. Pandemic years. And I was bored. {Rick laughing} But I still found myself talking about this and all the church visits that I had done seven years earlier, and why am I still talking about this seven years later? So, I created my YouTube channel. And just here were some takeaways. Here are what some other churches are like.
GT 06:38 And so you hadn’t been visiting, you were just recapping.
David 07:15 Recapping.
GT 07:15 Okay.
David 07:15 Recapping from seven years earlier.
GT 07:17 Right.
David 07:18 So, in the back of my mind, I’m wondering again, okay, what happens if I do this again?
GT 07:23 The sequel?
David 07:24 Yeah, a sequel. And after everything that happened 2020, with all the lock downs, and then everything that resulted from George Floyd’s death.
GT 07:34 Oh, yeah.
David 07:34 And the number of news stories, because the news was just so huge into just everything just falling apart during that time, presidential elections, everything. I can’t remember if January 6th was around that time with insurrection, all that news going on. The country had changed completely. And it got me wondering, “Okay, it might be a good idea to try this again.” And things happened in my life where it opened up the opportunity to do it again. Let’s do it. I’ll just go to the nearest church, or one of the nearest churches near me. The first three weeks, I’ll just do ones I’m comfortable with. And we’ll try this again, and see what happens. Because there are certain churches that I didn’t get to visit the first time, like the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
GT 08:24 Oh, I have heard of that one. {Chuckling}
David 08:25 I’m sure you have. But let’s see what happens if we try this again.
GT 08:24 Now was this with a capital “D” or a lowercase “d?”
David 08:33 That’s a lowercase “d.”
GT 08:34 Okay. {Rick laughing}
David 08:36 I learned very early about the capital and the lowercase, the differences in the naming and everything like that.
GT 08:43 {Rick laughing} Now, I do have some non-Mormon listeners. And they might not know what the significance between the capital “D” and the lowercase “d” is. Can you go ahead and tell us?
David 08:51 I’m not even sure myself. I’m sure there was like certain type of naming, copyrights or whatever. But yeah, I’m curious!
GT 09:00 Oh, I can answer the question.
David 09:01 Please.
GT 09:03 The LDS Church, the largest restoration church, has a lowercase “d.” But there’s another church with basically the identical name that was founded–this is arguable, but I’m going to say it from an LDS point of view, founded by James Strang.
David 09:21 Okay. I saw that at the Strangite Church, because they had the capital “D,” no hyphen.
GT 09:26 That’s right. And you visited that church, too.
David 09:28 I did.
GT 09:28 And they’re in Wisconsin.
David 09:29 Exactly.
GT 09:29 How far, are they far from your house?
David 09:31 Not too far. About a two-hour drive.
GT 09:33 Oh, two hours. Okay.
David 09:35 Considering some of my trips, that was nothing. {Rick chuckling}
GT 09:39 Well, let’s go with lowercase “d” first. The LDS Church the so-called Mormon church. What were your impressions? And also, what happened with that video? Because I think it blew up. Didn’t it?
David 09:50 Yeah, So originally, it did. When I started doing the new 52 Churches in 52 Weeks, I was just recording in my jeep. I had my little phone placeholder, and I’d just record. The first several weeks, I wasn’t getting many views. And I didn’t care about the views. I just needed to do this for myself. I’ll do it a second time. I’ll do it with YouTube. We’ll see what happens. And you know how it is with production; you start to learn things as you go.
GT 10:18 {chuckling} Yep.
David 10:20 So, for week eight, I had visited Amish country, to do a Mennonite Church service.
GT 10:26 Oh, nice.
David 10:27 And it was very, very different. And I remember so many people were curious about that, because when I was in the parking lot, I have a bright orange jeep. And every car in the parking lot was black or dark, like a gray tint to it. So, I’ve learned that I visited a black bumper Mennonite Church, where it was specific of you could only have a dark colored vehicle.
GT 10:55 Oh, so it’s the Amish that are still in the horse and buggy?
David 10:59 Right.
GT 10:59 So the, Mennonites can drive cars.
David 11:01 Yes.
GT 11:02 But they’re very similar groups, aren’t they?
David 11:03 Very similar, depending on what Mennonite group [it is] from my understanding. Because there’s three different types of Mennonites. I visited, I guess there’s an old order, a conservative, and then I don’t know what the third one is.
GT 11:18 Progressive?
David 11:18 But they’re much more progressive, they’ll wear—
GT 11:21 You can have different color cars.
David 11:22 Yes, I believe so. {both chuckling}
GT 11:25 Henry Ford would have been great. Any color as long as it’s black.
David 11:27 Yeah, pretty much. So, I had figured out the dress code. Just dress as nice as you could.
GT 11:38 Like a funeral dress, as far as black and white shirts?
David 11:41 White shirt, dark pants. That’s what everyone wore.
GT 11:44 Okay. Nobody wore a suit coat?
David 11:45 No. I was the only one that was wearing a tie.
GT 11:49 Oh.
David 11:49 I got lucky just wearing a white shirt, in the first place, because I stuck out so much to every kid. Because who is this baldy, fuzzy headed guy with this beard that’s trimmed with a tie?
GT 12:05 Oh, they don’t have beards, in Mennonites?
David 12:09 I don’t remember anyone wearing beards at that church service.
GT 12:13 Oh wow. I don’t know much about Mennonites. So, this is all news to me.
David 12:16 But all —
GT 12:17 I guess I need a Mennonite to come out here.
David 12:18 That would be great. So, all the women were on the left side. All the men were on the right side.
GT 12:19 Oh.
David 12:19 Little House on the Prairie style. So, with that dress code, the following week, I’m trying to figure out, okay, I had a friend in the past who told me to do a Mormon church.
GT 12:37 Okay.
David 12:38 I’m Google searching Mormon church, trying to figure out what to visit and I learned the dress code is similar to what I had worn the previous week. I’ll just go back-to-back with that.
GT 12:49 Okay.
David 12:49 But I knew nothing about Joseph Smith. I knew nothing about golden plates. When I do my church visits, I try to know as little as possible, so I don’t have any biases, or misconceptions walking in. Just show me. That’s my field research, try to not know going in. So, when I researched the Mormon Church as I called it back, then, as a Protestant…
GT 12:49 We used to call it that, too, back then.
David 12:50 Right. {Rick laughing}
David 12:52 That was my understanding of it, because I didn’t know any better. And I was driving over there to that ward. And I figured, well, maybe I should know just a little bit.
GT 13:34 Now, you said ward…
David 13:34 Yeah.
GT 13:34 …instead of congregation. So, there’s some LDS lingo that you picked up.
David 13:36 I learned the term “ward” when I was at that visit.
GT 13:44 Okay.
David 13:45 Because I didn’t even know what a ward was. On my drive over, I think I listened to two videos. One was Johnny Harris, why he had left the Mormon Church.
GT 13:56 Okay.
David 13:57 And that’s too negative. Let me see if I can find something a little bit more information. And then the second video, I don’t know what I was listening to, but it featured Joseph Smith, golden plates, the angel called Moroni. It took me forever to understand how to pronounce Moroni. And I get in the parking lot to record in my jeep, and I’m like, okay. Here we go. I don’t know what any of this is going to be. But I’m going to walk in, figure out what this is. I walked in. And just the pictures were the first thing that I saw, and it just blew my mind. Because I saw Joseph Smith with God the Father, and God the Son in this painting, in front of Joseph Smith, and I’m like, he’s wearing pants.
GT 14:44 Joseph Smith is wearing pants.
David 14:45 Right, 19th century. I’m not used to that type of Christian artwork.
GT 14:50 Oh.
David 14:51 To see a 19th century clothing.
GT 14:54 You’re used to first century stuff.
David 14:56 Yes. That completely blew my mind, and I sat down like, “what is going to happen?” I had a lady come up to me, she greeted me. It’s like, “Oh, you know, I feel like I’ve seen you before. But if not, what’s your name?” And she was super kind. And another gentleman walked up to me. And wow, I have never had two people come up to me to welcome me as I took a seat.
GT 15:21 That doesn’t happen in Utah, by the way.
David 15:23 I’ve heard, but at this particular ward, [it was] just fantastic.
GT 15:28 Well, yeah, to be honest, anywhere outside of Utah, that’s actually really common. People are like, “Oh, there’s a new guy. We’ve got to go talk to him.”
David 15:36 Yeah. But I did visit a ward today in Utah. I had a number of people come up to me and maybe–who knows?
GT 15:46 Okay. Good. It wasn’t a Utah County ward.
David 15:49 No.
GT 15:51 They’re huge.
David 15:52 Oh, okay.
GT 15:54 They’ll be like, “Ah, there’s too many people here.”
David 15:57 Yeah.
GT 15:57 But anyway, continue.
David 15:59 Yeah, they got me in contact with the missionaries. And then this was very different to me, because I’d visit all these other churches, but there was never any missionary aspect of that missionary model. I had so many questions. I was not accustomed to people sitting down with me for an hour and a half, to answer all my questions, and just tell me what this was. And I just remember, going back to my jeep, recording my initial reactions, and just, “Wow, this was really good. Why aren’t more churches doing this?” And I think, as a result, because I wasn’t bashing a church I didn’t understand, there was a very positive YouTube presence that resulted from that. And not only that, but then I needed to visit a ward a month later, and I didn’t have any plans to.
GT 16:55 A different ward?
David 16:56 Right.
GT 16:57 In Wisconsin.
David 16:58 In Wisconsin, because I was having some spiritual coincidences with Cardinals happening.
GT 17:03 Like the bird.
David 17:04 The bird.
GT 17:05 Not the Catholic priest.
David 17:06 Not the Catholic priest, correct. {Rick laughing} No Pope Francis involved with the whole story on this.
GT 17:12 Or St. Louis. {Rick laughing}
David 17:15 I won’t get too deep into that. But I visited that ward for my week 13 and had a number of callbacks to my past, that the talk had, and it just was like, “Okay, there’s something happening in my own personal faith walk that I found very interesting.” And then that video blew up.
