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The Warsaw-Nauvoo Rivalry (Part 2 of 7)

There was a real economic rivalry between the cities of Warsaw and Nauvoo, Illinois.  Is that the reason Thomas Sharp hated Mormons?  Brian Stutzman will give us more information on this rivalry.

Brian:  So the Latter day Saints come up and they come to Quincy, and Joseph Smith eventually joins them. They come up and they’re they are settling. As they come up, people in Warsaw are saying, “Why don’t you stop here?”  See in 1837, there was this national depression. Half the financial institutions in the United States collapse, including our own Kirtland Safety Society. There’s these developers that have all this land, and they say, “Come settle here. So I don’t go bankrupt. I need to sell my land.”  There were people in Warsaw that said the same thing and Joseph Smith and some of the other leaders, Isaac Borrow, some of these guys sit down.  “We’re making this deal with Isaac Galland and we’re going to settle up here.” There were some good interactions between the two towns.

Brian:  Not everybody in Warsaw at the time, was necessarily anti-Mormon…there were some political tensions that way, but also the fact that you could vote after six months of being in the States, even if you were an immigrant. So all of a sudden, you had bloc-voting going on. The people of Warsaw said, “We’ll never elect anybody with 6000, 8000, 10,000 LDS people when were at 400-500 down here.

GT  24:24  Because Nauvoo was really large.

Brian  24:25  It got really big, really fast.  Those people could vote.  If Joseph Smith came out for a candidate, they’re going to win, at least locally. You had some economic issues as well. People tended to trade amongst themselves.  In 1842, I believe it was, Thomas Sharp wrote in his paper, he said, “It’s funny that the Latter-day Saints,” I’m paraphrasing, “up in Nauvoo don’t trade with us. We don’t have anything. You won’t find anything made in Nauvoo in Warsaw. You won’t find it.” He says, “We’re probably better off because of it,” as a joke. So economics also played a part in the expansion of the Church. Joseph set up what was called the hub and spoke idea of settlements. Nauvoo was going to be the hub, and then they’d have settlements. We did that in Utah with Salt Lake and all the little communities. So Nauvoo this is going to be the center and Montrose, which became Zarahemla and some of these other towns. Well, they were looking to put a Mormon settlement in Warsaw, just south of Warsaw.

Find out more about these early settlements.  Check out our conversation….

Hill-Dodge Bank in Historic Warsaw, Illinois. Brian Stutzman describes the rivalry between Warsaw and Nauvoo.

Don’t miss our previous episode with Brian!

306: The Anti-Mormon Triangle: Warsaw, Carthage, Nauvoo

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Mixing Church & Politics in LGBT Fight (Part 1 of 4)

I’m excited to have Greg Prince back on the show!  We’re going to talk about his new book, Gay Rights and the Mormon Church and we will discuss the history of LDS Church policy toward gays, and get into not only Prop 8 in California, but Prop 22 as well.  We will also talk about the legal battles in Hawaii that led to federal legislation prohibiting gay marriage. But why did Greg write this book on church & politics?

Initially, I thought I would write a book about Prop 8 and the Mormon Church’s role in it. Because even though people knew that there had been a role, there had not been anything published that tried to take a comprehensive look at that. When I started with Prop 8, I quickly began to realize that Prop 8 wasn’t told whole story. It reached backwards into Prop 22, which was similar legislation in California eight years earlier and that, in turn, was related to the Hawaii lawsuit that began in the early 1990s, which was really the first time when the courts took up the issue of marriage equality, in any serious fashion, enough so that people thought that that would be the turning point.

He’ll answer that in our next conversation….

Greg Prince details the history of LDS political fights over gay marriage from the 1990s through today.

Don’t miss our previous discussion with Greg!

104: When did we start Ordaining Young Men?

103: Naturalist Explanation for Word of Wisdom?

102: Early LDS Priesthood: Similar to Ancient Christianity?

101: Ailing Church Leaders:  “Not Ideal Governance.”

100:  The 4 LDS Leadership Vacuums – What Happened?

094: “There is Nothing in LDS Theology that Justifies Whacking Infants” (POX)

093: Greg Prince on History of LDS Policy Toward Gays

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John Hawley’s Polygamy Wrestle (Part 7 of 8)

Early Mormons believed polygamy was essential to salvation, but pioneer John Hawley struggled with the doctrine.  Would he agree to take on another wife?

Mel:  So John says he’s going to get married polygamously.  His brother had had three wives, who was down to one by them.  I’ll need to tell you the story of Sarah Ann Hadfield in a moment, one of those wives.  John pulls a wagon out, crosses little Pinto Creek to the north, and the axle fell off, the rear axle fell off. Robert Hawley, his great-grandson who has now gone to the ages, told me the family lore is that John took that as a sign from God that he was not to take a second wife.

Mel tells what John finally decided about polygamy.  Check out our conversation….

John P Hawley struggled whether he should take a polygamous wife.

Don’t miss our other conversations with Mel!

280: Brigham Knew about MMM?

279: Hawley’s Opposition to MMM

278: Mormon Pioneers in Texas & End of Wightites

277: More on the Zodiac Temple in Texas

276: Lyman Wight & Mormon Colonies in Texas

275: Intro to Hawley