Posted on Leave a comment

Mark Hofmann’s Role in Mormon History (Part 4 of 5)

John Larsen of the Sunstone and I discussed some critics of Mormonism. The most notorious is probably Mark Hofmann, who is a murderer and forger of Mormon documents.  We discussed some of Rick’s past interviews and knowledge Rick has learned in talking to people who knew or prosecuted Mark Hofmann.

John:  I mean, Hofmann is a murderer, and a criminal. But geez, that man was brilliant.

Rick:  He was brilliant.  He’s got horrible handwriting, too.

John:  We still don’t know because, you can push back, because the church wanted it to go away. So the church got involved. There’s a lot of people who’ve accused this. I’m not the one making this up. The church got involved. They wanted to cut a deal. They cut a deal with Hofmann, that if he pled guilty, he wouldn’t get the death penalty. He got a blanket pass that he wouldn’t have to talk to anybody else. So he didn’t have to answer…

Rick:  Well, that’s not exactly true. There was a deal cut and if you want to get into all the details, watch my George Throckmorton interview, because we talked about that. Also, Sandra was very angry that a deal was made because she’s like, “I think we could have got the death penalty on him.” I don’t know if people know this, but he tried to put out a hit on the Director of the Board of Pardons.

John:  Oh, I didn’t know that.

Rick:  Yeah, while he was in jail, because he should be out of jail by now. He will never leave jail.

Rick:  But yeah, so Mark was supposed to spill the beans and he never did, due to–anyway. George talks about it. There were some mistakes done in the prosecution, and they should have had him tell the stuff before they’d cut the deal and they didn’t. So then he had no incentive to talk after that. A lot of the stuff that he was supposed to tell he never told.

John:  I would invite everybody go out there and read one of the true crime books. The one I liked was one by Sillitoe.

Rick:  Yeah, that’s the best–that’s one of the best ones.

John:  I think it’s called Salamander.

We will talk about other details of the Hofmann saga, and discuss other Mormon critics.  Check out our conversation….

Mark Hofmann killed 2 people and is serving a life sentence.

Don’t miss our previous conversations!

415:  Learning from Mormon Cousins

414:  LDS Leaders and Historical Issues

413:  Intro to Gospel Tangents

Posted on Leave a comment

Mark’s Trial, Dorie’s 5-Minute Divorce (Part 6)

Dorie Olds tells her recollections of the preliminary trial, Mark’s plea bargain, and her 5-minute divorce to bomber Mark Hofmann.  It’s a fascinating conclusion to our conversation with Dorie.

GT: And then the plea bargain comes I guess. What did you think?

Dorie: The plea bargain. He was telling his dad. He was telling me, and he was telling his dad “I’m innocent, I’m innocent, I’m innocent.”

And, his dad’s like, “Why are you going to plead guilty to this if you’re innocent? You don’t plead guilty.”

And I’m going, “What is it?” Same thing. “What is it you’re doing?”

And he told both of us a story, which didn’t make sense to me, but i was like, “I don’t understand this. I don’t understand it. I can do nothing.” I could never make him do anything. And that’s the truth. I could never make him do anything. So, again, I [had this] out of control, powerless feeling with him.

And so what he told his dad and I, what he said was, “There’s a reason why I’m doing this. It’s going to protect you and the kids from being killed.” That’s what he said. I don’t know. See, it’s dramatic enough that it’s like, okay. “But I can’t talk about it. I can’t tell you. I can’t.” See. It’s another big story, you know? “But I’m innocent. But I’m going to plead guilty. But I’m doing it to protect my thing. I’m a such a good guy. I’m doing it to protect my family.” That’s the story. So yeah. So that’s what he said.

Check out our conversation…  Don’t forget to check out our previous conversations with Dorie!

Dorie Olds tells about Mark Hofmann's preliminary trial, and her 5-minute divorce from him.
Dorie Olds tells about Mark Hofmann’s preliminary trial, and her 5-minute divorce from him.

216: “You May Be in Danger” (Olds)

215: Was Dorie Blamed for the Bombings? (Olds)

214: “Be Grateful for Adversity” (Olds)

213: Gaslighted by Mark (Olds)

212: Finding Mark’s First Forgery (Olds)

Posted on Leave a comment

“You May Be in Danger” (Part 5)

We’re continuing our conversation with Dorie Olds.  Following the 2 bombs that went off in 1985, I asked her if she was worried for her safety.  At the time, she didn’t know that her husband, Mark Hofmann was planting the bombs….  Was Dorie really in danger?

GT: Let’s go back to the awful October of 1985. So, I’ve talked with several people that have known Mark and they were all, they were all looking for bombs under their car.

Dorie: Yeah, it frightened a lot of people.

GT:  Curt Bench, Shannon Flynn, even Michael Quinn. Were you concerned for your safety? Because none of these people believed that it was Mark initially either.

Dorie: Yeah.

GT: Were you concerned?

Dorie:  I wasn’t until Mark called me. He called me and said, “You need to leave the house because you may be in danger.” So he’s telling me this big old lie, scaring me….I remember just running out so fast that I didn’t even close the dishwasher. I remember just running, leaving so fast. And then [I was] talking to Mark later and he laughed when I told him, “Yeah, I left. I grabbed everything.”

“Well you didn’t really need to,” or something like that. He laughed at me because I got scared. I remember that.

GT:  That struck you as pretty odd?

Dorie:  Yes. It was like, “What? And why did you tell me? Why are you telling me I need to leave? If you didn’t want me to leave? Why are you? Why? What?”

Because I did not understand him. What’s going on? And it’s like, if I’m not in danger, why are you telling me I’m in danger? But yeah, he laughed. I remember that.

Find out more of Dorie’s perspective!

Dorie describes running out of her house when bomber Mark Hofmann told her, "You may be in danger."
Dorie describes running out of her house when bomber Mark Hofmann told her, “You may be in danger.”