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18 Revelations to Gather to Missouri Now! Remnant Church Scriptures

We’re continuing our discussion (see part 3 here) with Jim Vun Cannon, a counselor in the First Presidency of the Remnant Church.  In this episode, we’ll talk about Remnant Church Scriptures.  Some of these revelations tell people to gather to Missouri.  We’ll first talk about their version of the Doctrine & Covenants.

GT:  Have you had any revelations?  How many have you had since 1984?

Jim:  Considering our church started about 1999-2000, about 18.

GT:  About 18, wow.  That’s about one a year.

Jim:  Yeah, pretty much.

GT:  Can you about what are some of those revelations that you’ve had since 2000?

Jim:  A number of those revelations are directional.  As far as revealing doctrine, per se, so like when you look at Joseph Smith, Jr. and you look at his revelations, there’s a lot of doctrines that he’s revealing that we see there.

Gather to Missouri Now!

Some of these revelations tell the saints to gather to Missouri.

Jim:  Our revelations as we call them from the Remnant Church forward, you’ll see a lot of direction around building community, so we were to go and build community in eastern Jackson County and so we’re doing that again, and we have done that.

GT:  So you’re gathering to Missouri.

Jim:  More or less.  Yes, we are already in Missouri.  Those of us there are starting to build that because we believe that Zion is a literal place, and that it is the kingdom of heaven on earth where God the Father will dwell and so we are trying to do the best we can.

GT:  That’s an interesting idea.  It seems like in the LDS Church when I was growing up there was this talk about returning to Missouri but I’ll bet in the last 20 years you don’t hear that in the LDS Church anymore.  Nobody talks about going back to Missouri anymore.  We’re very happy in Salt Lake.  We’re building Zion where we are.  That’s interesting to me.  I do believe that’s something with the Community of Christ as well as the Remnant Church.  That’s a big piece of your doctrine and theology is gathering to Jackson County.  Is that correct?

Jim:  Correct, yes.  If you want to look at what really, of all the different groups that are out there, that is a defining point.  How you define the kingdom changes a lot of things.  It really does.  As you look at it, some believe that there’s nothing you can do.  They look at it as Zion’s going to show up one day.  If you’re worthy then you get to go in.  If you’re not worthy, you’re not going to get to go in.

We believe that we can actually build Zion and it’s a process that we go through and that at some point we’ll become sanctified to where it will be the Zion that is spoken of.

Do you wish the LDS Church had more revelations, or is this simply the function of a new church to get more revelations than an established church?  Why do you think the LDS Church doesn’t emphasize gathering to Missouri anymore?

Pearl of Great Price?

I also asked Jim about the Pearl of Great Price.

Jim:  The Book of Moses you’re talking about, as best I understand that’s the same thing we have in our Genesis.  The Inspired Version is what we call it.  The Joseph Smith Translation what you have, that’s what we call the Inspired Version.

GT:  Oh so you actually include that as part of your Bible.

Jim:  It is actually—the scriptures for members actually have that in there.  The King James is really used just for those who are non-members.  We’re witnessing to them, we have a common point of reference, the King James.

GT:  Oh so you would have the six books of Moses then.

Jim:  Yeah, I guess that would be fair to say that, yeah.

We’ll also talk about chiasmus in the Book of Mormon.  Check out our conversation!  (Don’t forget parts 1, 2, and 3!)

 

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What’s the view of the RLDS Succession Crisis?

In the LDS Church we believe in an orderly succession from Joseph Smith to Brigham Young.  In the Reorganized Church of course they don’t accept Brigham as the prophet and instead accept Joseph Smith III.  What is the view of RLDS Succession Crisis? In this conversation with Jim Vun Cannon, a counselor in the First Presidency of the Remnant Church, we’ll learn that 16 years after Joseph Smith was killed, the Reorganized Church was established.

GT:  One of the things I want to talk a little bit about is the Succession Crisis.  As you know Joseph Smith, for those of my listeners who aren’t super familiar with church history, Joseph Smith was killed in 1844 in the Carthage Jail.  As I understand it, and correct me if I’m wrong, I believe it was another 15 or so years before—Joseph Smith III was just a young boy.  He was probably about 14 or so?

Jim:  Yeah, that’s correct.  He was a young boy.

GT:  So it took about 15 years or so before Joseph Smith III felt called of God and then the Reorganized Church started in 1860.  I believe it was April 6, 1860?

Jim:  Actually that’s an interesting point.  It actually started in 1852.

GT:  Oh!

Jim:  We actually had met together, a number of people during the Succession Crisis had come together.  They organized at the apostle level, so the Second Presidency level if you will.  They had the church until the prophet came forth, and so when young Joseph came, he felt compelled to come.  That’s part of what he said, “I come by a power not of my own,” and he came to the church.  It was in April 6, 1860 and so forth.  Most people do look at that as the beginning, but honestly it was 1852, October of 1852 where they held the first general conference of the church at that point.

Similarly, following the 1984 revelation where women got the priesthood on the RLDS Church, 16 years later the Remnant Church was begun.  We’ll talk about similarities and differences between these two reorganizations, as well as talk about some priesthood differences between the LDS Church and the Remnant Church.

Jim:  We have quorums of seventy that are underneath the Twelve, so seven quorums of Seventy is what we have.  Now we don’t have seven quorums of Seventy, we only have one quorum.

GT:  We only had that for a long time but now we’ve got six or seven I think.  Yeah seven is the maximum.  We’ve got that.  I don’t believe all of our seven quorums have 70 in them.  They’re half that I believe.

Jim:  And if I understand correctly, your seventies are based on high priest, or are they based on elder?

GT:  They are based on High Priest.

Jim:  Ours are based on elder.

GT:  Oh really?

Jim:  Yes if you’re based on an elder in the Melchizedek Priesthood, well obviously because your priesthood is an elder, you’re set apart to be a seventy from the office of elder, not the office of high priest.

GT:  Oh interesting.  I know it does seem very hierarchal in our church, and I don’t believe that’s the case in the Community of Christ and I’m not sure in your church as well.  Do you have adult members that are either Aaronic Priesthood or Melchizedek Priesthood holders?  Is that pretty typical?

Jim:  Yes that is pretty typical.  We don’t look at it as a progression.  We look at it as a calling.  It may be for instance you have a calling as a deacon all your life.  It doesn’t mean you didn’t magnify your call, it just means that that was what the Lord called you to do.  We have literally men who are 80-90 years old who are deacons, and also vice-versa.  We might have very young men who are elders or high priests, so there’s no progression.  The way we look at it is wisdom and revelation is what’s in our scriptures for that.

Check out our conversation….  (Don’t forget to check out part 1 and part 2!)

 

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From Convert to First Presidency in 5 years!

We’re continuing our discussion with Jim Vun Cannon, (see part 1 here)  a counselor in the First Presidency of the Remnant Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.  In this episode, we’ll talk about how he turned from Convert to First Presidency in just 5 years!  He became disillusioned with RLDS Church following the 1984 revelation giving women the priesthood.  How did he feel following this revelation?

Jim:  [I] tried to sift through the ashes of what felt like a burned down church.  I graduated high school in ‘83, so in ’84 it was like, what just happened?  Because I was right there in Independence so it was kind of a civil war with spiritual bloodshed on both sides.  It was just very unfortunate, because there obviously were a lot of strong feelings on both sides.

It sounds quite damaging spiritually.  I asked Jim when he first came to the Remnant Church.

Jim:  I started attending the Remnant Church in 2012 I believe is when I started.

GT:  Oh really, just that recently?

Jim:  Yes, that recently, yes.

GT:  Wow, and you’re in the First Presidency now!

Jim:  Yes, it was an experience where the Lord told me to go and join this church, and I was just told to go and worship with these folks and ministered with these folks and I really wasn’t told much more than that.  At the time I did not even have a testimony of President Larsen and his calling to be the prophet of the church, but that came very shortly afterwards.  I felt like it was one of those stepping out of the boat moments.  You know the water was a little squishy underneath your feet and trying to look forward, but yes, yes.

GT:  You know as we look at the early church with Joseph Smith, a lot of times he did take brand new converts and put them right in the First Presidency, so that’s pretty interesting.

So literally from five years to counselor in the First Presidency—that’s quite an amazing feat!  Can you imagine what that must have been like?  We also talk about priesthood and youth programs.  Check out the conversation!